What do Moz fans think about 'Notre Dame'?

[gashonthenail]

So, recent events have got me thinking about the song, Notre Dame. There has been a very noticeable trend recently to 'kill' stories relating to Islamist terror. The attack in Australia yesterday has had very minimal reporting in the mainstream media. Meta and X/Twitter were instructed immediately to remove any footage of the attack. I wonder would the same had happened if a neo-Nazi had stabbed an imam in a mosque? I think it would have been reported very differently. If they could have yesterday, they would have reported that the young man slipped whilst holding a letter opener, and there was nothing to see here. But no one would have fallen for that. It was reported in the media that the victim of the attack was 'far right' (because he is anti the alphabet people) and an 'anti-vaxxer' (because he thought lockdowns were 'mass slavery' and natural immunity was safer than the covid vaccine - wise man!), almost as if that justified the attack. Absolutely bizarre.
The reaction of the very tight-knit Syrian Christian community was heart breaking. There was real anger outside the church, whilst the crowd demanded the attacker be handed over. There was certainly no one singing Don't Look Back in Anger. Nothing 'phobic' or 'irrational' in the crowd's response. An emotional response, yes, but an entirely rational response, if your community has just been attacked.
When Notre Dame was first played live, I was skeptical. I thought, God, I'm really not sure if this is a wise move. Putting your neck on the line in this way. But as time has gone on, I am more and more of the opinion that Moz is probably 100% correct in his assertion in this song. It was arson - but the French government thought that to admit that would provoke a popular reaction across France like what was seen yesterday on the streets of Sydney. It is what people do when under attack. So the narrative was changed to - it was an accident, could have happened anywhere, nothing to see here.

 

[Vesper Nocturne]

Agree

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

Seems an odd terrorist act if it was one (I don’t think it was). Has any group taken credit for doing it? And don’t these groups tend to go for acts that cause as much death as possible, rather than burning old buildings?

 

[CrazyFaceGenes]

It's terrible tin foil hat stuff, the building has it's own security on top of all the staff relating to the religious and touristy side of things, the fire started in the roof of a medieval building at roughly the same height as the bell Big Ben. The fire was detected instantly but the fire protection system failed and sent staff to the wrong section of roof. It was a series of f*** ups and delays that destroyed part of Notre Dame, people on the renovation team were actually smoking in the roof surrounded by fine wood dust, electricity and metal scaffolding.

There's multiple reasons why the authorities said it wasn't Morrissey's invisible terrorist

 

[Anonymous]

I heard the person responsible was 'some Puerto Rican guy'.

 

[gashonthenail]

Seems an odd terrorist act if it was one (I don’t think it was). Has any group taken credit for doing it? And don’t these groups tend to go for acts that cause as much death as possible, rather than burning old buildings?

The police in Sydney have called it an act of terrorism as the evidence is it was motivated by Islamist / political ideology. The attacker shouted Allahu Akbar as he stabbed the bishop.

Sydney church stabbing was 'terrorist' attack, police say

A 16-year-old boy is under arrest after a bishop and several churchgoers were injured on Monday.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[CrazyFaceGenes]

Yeah, apparently tensions were running high in the community before this, the Assyrian bishop wasn't shy(he shouldn't have to be) saying stuff that was ant- Islam or Muhammad, so something was going to happen eventually. The attacker seems to have form for knife crime outside of religious bullshit as well.

 

[Phranc & Open]

Regardless of the terrible lyrics, which make the song completely unsuitable for radio airplay, the music doesn't look good on him. It reminds me of the LIHS Expanded Edition experiments, which all lead to nowhere.

 

[CrazyFaceGenes]

At this point he should change the lyrics to something more focused on the beauty of the church or the malfunctioning fire detection system.

Notre Dame- they didn't call the fire brigade

Fire broke out in the attic beneath the cathedral's roof at 18:18.[25] At 18:20 the fire alarm sounded and guards evacuated the cathedral;[26] a guard was sent to investigate, but to the wrong location—the attic of the adjoining sacristy—where he found no fire. About fifteen minutes later the error was discovered, but by the time guards had climbed the three hundred steps to the cathedral attic the fire was well advanced.[25] The alarm system was not designed to automatically notify the fire brigade, which was summoned at 18:51 after the guards had returned.[27] Firefighters arrived within ten minutes.[28]

Catchy

 

[gashonthenail]

I suppose one reading of the song is that the fire was symbolic. A symbol of the assault on the West and Western civilisation. It never actually states what did cause the fire and who was involved.

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

The police in Sydney have called it an act of terrorism as the evidence is it was motivated by Islamist / political ideology. The attacker shouted Allahu Akbar as he stabbed the bishop.

Sydney church stabbing was 'terrorist' attack, police say

A 16-year-old boy is under arrest after a bishop and several churchgoers were injured on Monday.

www.bbc.co.uk

I meant Notre Dame.

 

[BookishBoy]

I truly don't think it was arson, at all.

Here's a very good report outlining the many, many failings surrounding the safety of the renovation work that was taking place at the time.

For Morrissey to write a song insinuating that it was arson/terrorism is, for me, deeply depressing. I'm all for free thinking, being contrarian, etc but everything about this song feels very, very lazy and reeks of him spending wayyyy too much time online when he could be out shopping for flares instead.

If pushed to defend the song, you could perhaps argue that - putting to one side the arson conspiracy theory - he's trying to make the point (again) that certain discussions aren't allowed to be had, or certain ideas allowed to be expressed:

"Before investigations, they said
This is not terrorism!"

So yes: I'm sure the French authorities did rule out terrorism before they were certain of it, but...there are perfectly understandable reasons for doing that.

It's his right to sing about these things, but he knows very well it will keep record labels from wanting to get involved with him.

 

[gashonthenail]

I truly don't think it was arson, at all.

Here's a very good report outlining the many, many failings surrounding the safety of the renovation work that was taking place at the time.

For Morrissey to write a song insinuating that it was arson/terrorism is, for me, deeply depressing. I'm all for free thinking, being contrarian, etc but everything about this song feels very, very lazy and reeks of him spending wayyyy too much time online when he could be out shopping for flares instead.

If pushed to defend the song, you could perhaps argue that - putting to one side the arson conspiracy theory - he's trying to make the point (again) that certain discussions aren't allowed to be had, or certain ideas allowed to be expressed:

"Before investigations, they said
This is not terrorism!"

So yes: I'm sure the French authorities did rule out terrorism before they were certain of it, but...there are perfectly understandable reasons for doing that.

It's his right to sing about these things, but he knows very well it will keep record labels from wanting to get involved with him.

According to Wikipedia:
Fire happened on 15 April 2019, starting at about 18.20 local time.
On 16 April 2019, the Paris prosecutor said there was no evidence of arson.
So the before investigations line is pretty spot on.

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

 

[gashonthenail]

I meant Notre Dame.

Yes, sorry, I misread your post. The fire itself was certainly a 'spectacular', regardless of its cause. And potentially deeply symbolic. Many Islamist sources did see it as a symbol of the West has fallen!

"The West Has Fallen" - The Notre Dame Fire and the Narrative of "Clash of Civilisations" - International Review

Jihadist supporters and alt-right social networks, though providing vastly different theories, have given their input on the Notre Dame fire, and have built their own narratives around it.

international-review.org

 

[CrazyFaceGenes]

According to Wikipedia:
Fire happened on 15 April 2019, starting at about 18.20 local time.
On 16 April 2019, the Paris prosecutor said there was no evidence of arson.
So the before investigations line is pretty spot on.

I think that was fine in the context of all the rumours being spread around online etc.
On site security and other people working in the building saw nothing suspicious. Entering Notre Dame, getting up to the roof, lighting a fire and getting back down 300 steps and exiting without being seen in a high profile place like that is pretty much unlikely.

There was still going to be an official investigation into the actual cause of the fire and what went wrong on the day.

 

[Mozzypaws]

I just want to hear the studio version, because the live track sounds groovy and funk rock. I'm neutral on the theory, I suppose it's possible

 

[gordyboy9]

I just want to hear the studio version, because the live track sounds groovy and funk rock. I'm neutral on the theory, I suppose it's possible

im with you on the live version front,for me all of the bonfire songs will sound better than the live versions.

 

[Mozzypaws]

im with you on the live version front,for me all of the bonfire songs will sound better than the live versions.

I just really hope that the rest of BOT doesn't sound autotuned to hell and back like Rebels Without Applause...

 

[gordyboy9]

I just really hope that the rest of BOT doesn't sound autotuned to hell and back like Rebels Without Applause...

yeah was just thinking that,would have preferred joe chicarelli producing,least you get a nice clear sound with his production.