Morrissey’s view on gender identity

[TheSmiths_1985]

I've been dragged into these arguments since the days of Brooke Magnanti v. Gia Milianovich so I do know where the discourse has been going & who is involved.

Hahahaha!

 

[Lionel Cliffhanger]

I didn't suggest "no one" Lionel. It's a small number of IRL activists & a lot of trolls.

The GC's are also starting to cancel people since they got some funding.

This is hilarious. When I posted similar points I was hounded as Transphobic, which is clearly a nonsense. All you have to do is search the forums for my views. I stand up for women. Always have, and always will.

But when your hero does it - yep, we'll all accept it without further questioning.

You are replying to me. I have never hounded you as transphobic. I don’t think I have ever interacted with you.

I think I broadly agree with you on this issue. But you do you…

 

[Uncleskinny]

You are replying to me. I have never hounded you as transphobic. I don’t think I have ever interacted with you.

I think I broadly agree with you on this issue. But you do you…

I wasn't replying to you specifically, just making the general point.

I was delighted with the Scottish court of session's ruling yesterday. I am sick of men encroaching on women's spaces, whether in public life, schools, changing rooms, sports. The very hard fought rights of women have been eroded by the modern contagion of genderwoo that says a man can be a woman just if he says so. The only losers are women. It's sickening.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Thank you for joining the truth brigade, you legend!!

Moz is legend! A living legend! Thanks for joining the Moz brigade!

 

[Lionel Cliffhanger]

I wasn't replying to you specifically, just making the general point.

I was delighted with the Scottish court of session's ruling yesterday. I am sick of men encroaching on women's spaces, whether in public life, schools, changing rooms, sports. The very hard fought rights of women have been eroded by the modern contagion of genderwoo that says a man can be a woman just if he says so. The only losers are women. It's sickening.

Yeah, totally agree. As discussed elsewhere on this thread, as well as having a negative impact on women and children, it also has a massive negative impact on gays and lesbians, and women of colour.

But trans/men’s rights activists care more about the feelings of men that want to wear their grannies knickers.

 

[Malarkey]

Having trolled both sides back in the early 2010s - the MRAs are now on the 'gender critical' side or enjoying the fallout.

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

Yeah, totally agree. As discussed elsewhere on this thread, as well as having a negative impact on women and children, it also has a massive negative impact on gays and lesbians, and women of colour.

But trans/men’s rights activists care more about the feelings of men that want to wear their grannies knickers.

Exactly. These granny’s-knickers-wearers are laughing all the way to the women’s toilets, because they know the likes of Nerak and her fellow Twitter social justice warriors will back them to the hilt because they love to fight for minority causes.
Meanwhile, Big Pete is wanking herself into oblivion in the M&S changing rooms.

 

[Lionel Cliffhanger]

Having trolled both sides back in the early 2010s - the MRAs are now on the 'gender critical' side or enjoying the fallout.

People who are campaigning for transwomen are literally campaigning for increased male rights. Hence, they are men’s rights activists. And they should be ashamed.

 

[Malarkey]

People who are campaigning for transwomen are literally campaigning for increased male rights. Hence, they are men’s rights activists. And they should be ashamed.

And people who are campaigning for sex based rights have teamed up with right-wing activists who want to roll back many of the gains of feminism & gay liberation - so drag queens are being demonised, and in America they've lost abortion rights.

Even Julie Bindel has the occasional wobble - activists like Finn Mackay bailed - & Germaine Greer has never been involved.

 

[Born to Harangue]

Uncleskinny is sick of men encroaching on women until it comes to talking about curtailing immigration, even though, whether he wants to admit it or not, immigration has played a sizeable role in rape rates increasing in many countries across Europe over the past few decades. I’m not a fan of the gender mania either but immigration has been a far greater danger and caused more harm to women than men in women’s clothing going into women’s changing rooms. Uncleskinny will never face up to this because he’s a liar and a hypocrite. And no, I’m not saying that the indigenous men of the country don’t rape women too, but if you’re concerned about women’s safety then importing more men - hundreds of thousands of them - every year to the UK, some of whom will be coming from more repressive countries and may hold attitudes towards women not exactly in line with the majority of people already living in the UK, is probably not the best idea.

Here’s a few words about Sweden to back up the point I’m making (because these sorts of statistics for the UK don’t appear to be available anywhere, unsurprisingly):

“In 2021, a study found that of 3039 offenders aged 15–60 convicted of raping over 18 years of age in the 2000–2015 period, 59.2% had an immigrant background and 47.7% were born outside Sweden.” Just think what the figures will be for 2016-2030, but you don’t actually care about women so you’ll ignore that. Because if you did care like you claimed you do then you wouldn’t ignore it.

Rape in Sweden - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Spoiler

Uncleskinny said: “the modern contagion of genderwoo that says a man can be a woman just if he says so”, how about the modern contagion of ethnicity-woo that says a man from the other side of the world can be an Englishman just if he or the media tell you so? No, not as interested in that particular ‘woo’ are you, despite the fact that it’s a similar warping of reality. What a clown you are!

 

[gashonthenail]

And people who are campaigning for sex based rights have teamed up with right-wing activists who want to roll back many of the gains of feminism & gay liberation - so drag queens are being demonised, and in America they've lost abortion rights.

Even Julie Bindel has the occasional wobble - activists like Finn Mackay bailed - & Germaine Greer has never been involved.

Please give examples of where JK Rowling or Kathleen Stock or Julie Bindle have 'teamed up with right wing activists'. You really do talk such rubbish. It is the trans taliban who have set back gay rights by about 20 years and advocate sterilising young lesbian women.
To watch you perform mental gymnastics on this topic is just hilarious. On this one Moz is with Germaine Greer and JK Rowling. And he's not with the woke left, who are a f***ing embarrassment. Starmer can't even define what is a woman ffs.

 

[Redacted]

and in America they've lost abortion rights.

Nope. It was rightly decided that abortion 'rights' are not in the Constitution, which sends the decision back to each individual state, as it should have always been and was before Roe. Abortion is still legal here, as it was before Roe. The decision is very well written, you should have read it before making your statement.

 

[gashonthenail]

I am a sleuth, I dig up the truth
I ferret the facts, even when there are none
A silent child, an elegant youth
This led me to find the truth about Ruth
Ruth is John
Ruth is John
We all do what we can
Just to get along
The life you lead, straightforward and bland
Everything happens according to plan
But some people fight just to take root
In a world ill-equipped for the truth about Ruth
Ruth is John
Ruth is John
We all do what we can
Just to get along
Oh, bully for you, oh, bully for you
Your groin and your face, they slip right into place
So masoned and carved, your arrow is drawn
You know who you are, yet you have no idea
Ruth is John
Ruth is John
And sooner or later
We are all calmed down

What more do you need??

Songs can be interpreted in many ways. One interpretation of that song is that it is transphobic. Moz is 'dead naming' Ruth. I'm surprised it didn't get him cancelled.
Of course, the song isn't transphobic. But it could be interpreted as expressing the idea that sex is immutable and can't be changed. Whilst also advocating for tolerance and acceptance of people who don't fit neatly into society's gender rules.
I think Moz believes we are all just human beings. Human beings in sexed bodies. Gender is just how society tells us we should behave according to what body we happen to find ourselves in. If you want to 'change' the body you were born into, go ahead, if you think that will make you happy, but it doesn't change your sex.

 

[Malarkey]

Please give examples of where JK Rowling or Kathleen Stock or Julie Bindle have 'teamed up with right wing activists'. You really do talk such rubbish. It is the trans taliban who have set back gay rights by about 20 years and advocate sterilising young lesbian women.
To watch you perform mental gymnastics on this topic is just hilarious. On this one Moz is with Germaine Greer and JK Rowling. And he's not with the woke left, who are a f***ing embarrassment. Starmer can't even define what is a woman ffs.

The LBG Alliance is working out of 55 Tufton Street, as one example.

Oh, & Germaine Greer got cancelled by the Gender Criticals over her rape remarks.

And she's a Marxist.

 

[gashonthenail]

The LBG Alliance is working out of 55 Tufton Street, as one example.

Oh, & Germaine Greer got cancelled by the Gender Criticals over her rape remarks.

And she's a Marxist.

View attachment 98685

I'm not sure how centre and centre-right think tanks constitute the 'far right'? Oh wait, I'm forgetting you are talking about the Malarkeyverse, rather than the place the rest of us live in. LGB Alliance is apolitical. but let's not let the facts get in the way of your gymnastics.

LGB Alliance shares think tanks’ Tufton Street address

Charity Commission urged to investigate organisation over shared address with right-wing lobby groups

www.opendemocracy.net

 

[gashonthenail]

& Germaine Greer has never been involved.

Wrong. Germaine campaigned against Rachael Padman (a man) being elected Fellow of the all female Newnham College Cambridge. Greer resigned her fellowship in protest. Given the historical under-representation of women in the STEM subjects, it is shameful that Newnham College Cambridge simply continued this bias.
And the reason she made a stand is because we know where this madness leads to: a male rapist being transferred to a female prison, or a female rape survivor having to sit in a female rape support group with a man in a frock.

Rachael Padman | Cambridge University Library

www.lib.cam.ac.uk

 

[Malarkey]

Wrong. Germaine campaigned against Rachael Padman (a man) being elected Fellow of the all female Newnham College Cambridge. Greer resigned her fellowship in protest. Given the historical under-representation of women in the STEM subjects, it is shameful that Newnham College Cambridge simply continued this bias.
And the reason she made a stand is because we know where this madness leads to: a male rapist being transferred to a female prison, or a female rape survivor having to sit in a female rape support group with a man in a frock.

Rachael Padman | Cambridge University Library

www.lib.cam.ac.uk

She was doing that on her own.

She didn't join the gender critical movement - she said she was too old to be yelled at.

 

[Malarkey]

I'm not sure how centre and centre-right think tanks constitute the 'far right'? Oh wait, I'm forgetting you are talking about the Malarkeyverse, rather than the place the rest of us live in. LGB Alliance is apolitical. but let's not let the facts get in the way of your gymnastics.

LGB Alliance shares think tanks’ Tufton Street address

Charity Commission urged to investigate organisation over shared address with right-wing lobby groups

www.opendemocracy.net

You said right-wing, not far right - but as you are far right, I guess you can't help yourself.

Tufton's backers only fund things it can use politically.

There's also Posie Parker & her mob.

 

[goinghome]

What Morrissey said about Germaine Greere's comments doesn't mean he agrees, just that the reaction she got is interesting. He was reporting that. From Sheila Take a Bow to The Truth About Ruth, he's done more than most to support gender freedoms.

There's a campaign in Ireland where activists concerned about children go round to libraries, and remove books for younger age groups with graphic sexual references. Some of these folk seem to coincide with protesters against excess immigration. Both of these groups are reflexively accused of being right-wing by politicians and the media. This cross-over comes up again and again. Whatever about truth, it is convenient for visible moral distancing.

The engaging American writer Thomas Frank has written books about populism, showing how misunderstood it is and how closer to democracy than most if not all other political movements it is. Which is relevant since populism these days is usually linked to the right.

There are many different aspects to these gender questions. I don't think anyone doubts that a sizeable minority of the population are not conventionally straight. That minority used to be people who were gay or got satisfaction from cross-dressing. I haven't seen statistics but am pretty sure the numbers desiring sex changes have absolutely skyrocketed in the past 10-20 years. Has this increase just happened randomly in human history? Despite knowledge of the grief and risks involved in seeking sex change, demand surges. Why is sexuality no longer a clear biological trait for many people? If that's a reasonable question, could there be a simple answer, at least in some cases? An environmental cause, maybe? Something in the water? Such as:

"The presence of pharmaceuticals in the environment has raised concerns among drinking water regulators, governments, water suppliers and the public. Certain pharmaceuticals have been proven to cause undesired adverse effects on ecosystems, including mortality, as well as changes to physiology, behaviour and reproduction. Of greatest concern are: hormones, antibiotics, analgesics, antidepressants and anticancer pharmaceuticals used for human health; and hormones, antibiotics and parasiticides used as veterinary pharmaceuticals. For example, oral contraceptives have caused the feminisation of fish and amphibians, antidepressants have altered fish behaviour making them less risk-averse and vulnerable to predators, and the over-use and discharge of antibiotics to water bodies exacerbates the problem of antimicrobial resistance."

https://www.oecd.org/environment/re...nary-version.pdf?trk=public_post_comment-text

This probably makes me a hangable anti-semite, or some other popular non-sequitur, but there it is. It doesn't solve a thing; just adding to the stimulating debate

 

[Anonymous]

What Morrissey said about Germaine Greere's comments doesn't mean he agrees, just that the reaction she got is interesting.

Incorrect. Morrissey said she was banned for being too intelligent and 'speaking common sense'. That's not a neutral comment.