Jesus of Nazareth, known as "J-dogg" by some

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

That’s a good point, but then again Jesus declared it would be worse for the towns who didn’t believe in his miracles than it was for Sodom and Gomorrah. And he said that Judas would go to hell for betraying him, and for that matter so would anyone who didn’t believe in him—which he also said would be a majority of people(!)—so I don’t know, some of his stuff is love and tolerance, but some of it is rather severe and unforgiving. I guess he had his issues and contradictions just like the rest of us mortals.

But he wasn’t putting his declarations into action, but leaving that for his pa to sort out. See my edited post above.

 

[Lucifer Sam]

But he wasn’t putting his declarations into action, but leaving that for his pa to sort out. See my edited post above.

Ah, okay. But I don’t know if it’s his father who’s going to do the judging and sorting. In Matthew 7:23 and 25:31-46, it’s Jesus himself who’s doing the damning—and it sure sounds like he’s not one to be trifled with. So maybe the intolerant and judgmental Christians on this board are “imitating Christ” in their way. I’m not sure who they’d be, though. gordyboy9? He can be a bit coarse but I consider him harmless and amusing. I’ll admit the no space after the commas thing is irritating. I’ll bet J-dogg used proper Hebrew and Aramaic punctuation when he wrote.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Ah, okay. But I don’t know if it’s his father who’s going to do the judging and sorting. In Matthew 7:23 and 25:31-46, it’s Jesus himself who’s doing the damning—and it sure sounds like he’s not one to be trifled with. Maybe the intolerant and judgmental Christians on this board are “imitating Christ.” I’m not sure who they’d be, though. gordyboy9? He can be a bit coarse but I consider him harmless and amusing. I’ll admit the no space after the commas thing is irritating. I’ll bet J-dogg used proper Hebrew and Aramaic punctuation when he wrote.

No. Gordy-B9 didn’t downvote my post. He is a good Christian and left that judgement and punishment (if there is one) in the care of the almighty!

 

[Lucifer Sam]

I got it now. Samsa, then.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

I got it now. Samsa, then.

I leave it to God to sort out! Like Pilate, my hands are clean of the matter!

 

[nicky wire's legs]

May I ask what's your objection to Catholicism? Aesthetically at least it's much better than most Protestant sects, which have a kind of gooey, experiential, hand-clapping "Jesus loves me" vibe. Catholicism is ritually more detached; the liturgy is refined and theatrical rather than personal. And many of the Victorian decadents like Wilde and Douglas and Beardsley, and some of the "bright young things" like Evelyn Waugh and Edith Sitwell became Catholic. I think artists are more drawn to Catholicism.

I'm not sure what my opposition to it is, other than it just seems rigid? Like it seems like the church is a construct that gets in the way of knowing christ. I do like formalism and ritual ceremony but not when it comes to Christianity. I think a thing has to be more abstruse and obscure for me to like that kind of thing. Born-again Christianity just seems more natural and free-flowing and inducive to 'following your own path', which Jesus I think would approve of.

As for things being 'gooey', you wanna know what's 'gooey'? Amber heart's performance on the stand. That was gooeyness par excellence.

 

[nicky wire's legs]

That’s a good point, but then again Jesus declared it would be worse for the towns who didn’t believe in his miracles than it was for Sodom and Gomorrah. And he said Judas would go to hell for betraying him, and for that matter so would anyone who didn’t believe in him—which he also said would be a majority of people(!)—so I don’t know, some of his stuff is love and tolerance, but some of it is rather severe and unforgiving. I guess he had his issues and contradictions just like the rest of us mortals.

That's cause he was an amoralist!

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

That's cause he was an amoralist!

‘What does it mean to be amoral person?


: having or showing no concern about whether behavior is morally right or wrong. amoral politicians. an amoral, selfish person. : being neither moral nor immoral. specifically : lying outside the sphere to which moral judgments apply.’


As I was touching on in my recent posts, maybe it could be said .. Jesus was lying outside the sphere to which judgments by mortals apply.
And so, Jesus himself being mortal/man, left judgment/punishment to his father.

 

[nicky wire's legs]

‘What does it mean to be amoral person?


: having or showing no concern about whether behavior is morally right or wrong. amoral politicians. an amoral, selfish person. : being neither moral nor immoral. specifically : lying outside the sphere to which moral judgments apply.’


As I was touching on in my recent posts, maybe it could be said .. Jesus was lying outside the sphere to which judgments by mortals apply.
And so, Jesus himself being mortal/man, left judgment/punishment to his father.

Yes, of course that is what is meant. It's very simple. He says himself that laws are made for man, not man for laws. It's not that he thinks he's so above everything, but that he places things like love and poetry above morality. An example of this is when he forgives Mary Magdalena her sins because "she loved much." He didn't mean it as though it were a direct exchange, as in "you can sin this much, if you love this much," just that love is on a higher scale than morality. Laws and morality are meant to keep the masses, who do not have this higher sense, from causing too much disharmony. But Jesus himself judges people on an individual basis according to the circumstances and their spirit (and the spirit does not understand the language of morality). That's what it means to be amoral, it's not an endorsement of immorality, it's simply knowing that, in the words of Jesus himself, "every man is worth more than the worst of his actions." If you believe that every man is worth more than the worst of his actions, then you believe that on a fundamental level man is outside of the moral sphere (which may be like that field rumi was talking about when he said "outside ideas of right doing and ideas of wrong doing, there is a field: I'll meet you there"). Jesus was a clear amoralist, and whoever doesn't understand that doesn't understand the first thing about Jesus. Of course I understand it innately because I am also an amoralist, to my core.

 

[nicky wire's legs]

Honey bunny, don't be jealous that I have the religious purity of one who has come to know Jesus through their heart, rather than having had him beaten into me by my Irish mam and the headmistress nun at school

 

[nicky wire's legs]

 

[Gregor Samsa]

I leave it to God to sort out! Like Pilate, my hands are clean of the matter!

I’m pretty sure Christ is fine with me downvoting the odd post on an online discussion board.

 

[caramel sea salt]

I’m sure Christ would have been fine with K-Ket’s (now deleted) post!

 

[Lucifer Sam]

That's what it means to be amoral, it's not an endorsement of immorality, it's simply knowing that, in the words of Jesus himself, "every man is worth more than the worst of his actions."

Where are these words of Jesus? In the Gnostic gospel acccording to St. rifke? It's fine if you want to believe Jesus was an amoralist, because maybe he was. The canonical gospels might be re-imaginings of Jesus by people who weren't amoralists and wanted to frame their own morality in his image. Which is always my point: Jesus lived two thousand years ago, and if he wrote anything down it's lost (and who knows, maybe he didn't even put a space after his commas). There was no photography so we don't have pictures. There really isn't any right answer about who Jesus was because some people even say he appears to them in visions and apparitions, and there's no way to refute that. Saying other people "don't understand the first thing about Jesus" is just a way of saying they don't share your opinion.

 

[Lucifer Sam]

 

[Lucifer Sam]

I think Morrissey is a better amoralist than Jesus because he gets a lot of hatred on here for cancelling concerts and not apologizing for it. Maybe he doesn't feel the need because if people are upset over a cancelled show then they might need some perspective. Morrissey probably thinks it's gooey that people behave so melodramatically over these things. "I get so emotional, baby!" It might be his way of saying that if you put your little cancelled concert next to the vast scale of animal suffering at the hands of humans, it's all okay. Remove the beam from thine own eye.

 

[Lucifer Sam]

Then maybe we can quickly move on to a discussion of the so-called ‘virgin birth’, in time for the holiday and all.

Bible study no. 2 comes from the Misquoting Jesus podcast with Bart Ehrman, who I like because he has a reedy, midwestern plains accent and sometimes gets energetic for his material. If he hadn't lost his faith, I could easily hear him giving nerdy discourses on the Book of Revelation on some obscure Christian radio station. This one has some meaningless banter in the intro, which I abhor in podcasts, but it's highly informative once it gets going, ranging from the familiar (the word is not "virgin" in the original Hebrew) to the later developments where Mary's hymen was a going concern in third-century Christian literature.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

I’m sure Christ would have been fine with K-Ket’s (now deleted) post!

Unlike herself.

I don’t think anyone deletes posts as often as she does. I wonder why she’s so flakey.

 

[Orange Crush]

Unlike herself.

I don’t think anyone deletes posts as often as she does. I wonder why she’s so flakey.

Who's K Ket?

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Who's K Ket?

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