Morrissey Central "ELIZABETH ANNE DWYER" (August 8, 2020)


Born Holles Street Hospital, Dublin, in
winter months.

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ELIZABETH ANNE DWYER

"With this broken voice I beseech you, my friends, to offer prayers of hope and prayers of intercession for the recovery of Elizabeth Anne Dwyer, who is my mother, who is in trouble, and who is the sole reason for all the good and motivational things in my life. I ask particularly my friends in Chile, Mexico, Italy, Peru, Paraguay, Brazil, the United States, Ecuador, Israel and Ireland to offer their prayers for Elizabeth - for she is all I have, and our collective pleas of petition might wake the sleeping gods.
She is me, and without her vahaan koee kal hal … there is no tomorrow. I ask no more of you… for there could be no more to ask."

Steven Patrick Francis Morrissey.

8 August 2020.


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Nothing but positive thoughts.
FWD.

Media items:
 
How very Old Testament :whip:

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It was more of a failed attempt at quoting from the Gospel of Cave in response to you. Reading some of the comments here I've lost every last bit of faith in any form of divinity.
 
“Judaism, Christianity & Islam have the same God.”

The small issue of the New Testament might suggest otherwise.

What on earth are you talking about?

Each of those religions agree they are the same god.

What is in the New Testament that suggests they aren't?

It is no wonder people stupidly still act like pre New Testament warmongers if people in these religions can't even follow the words in their relevant texts and love and respect each other.

Thank god for atheism :)
 
Yes, Christianity tries to efface difference and claim ‘it’s all the same thing’. But it is itself different in claiming that.

I, personally, think we do a disservice to all of those religions if we argue that worshippers are engaged with the same transcendent being.

From my experience of Christianity and Judaism: the former claims you can get to know God, whilst the the later maintains its god is unknowable. They can’t be the same conceptions.

So are you saying there is more than one god? That would have got you burnt once upon a time.

Theologically they are the same god and the religions are different practices of worshiping the same god
 
You are on point. Yes, the primary three religious persuasions are monotheistic, however, Christianity and Judaism are theistic whereas Islam is deistic. Do they worship the 'same' God? It is a disservice to believe and say they do on these grounds alone. Who is God? For example, what is Islam's view of the Trinity? What is the perspective of the Trinity to Judaism? This is where Judaism and Islam depart on this point. What one should be asking is, what is the correct understanding of God? It is a disservice (and dishonest) to say these three are the same as Nerak contends as the poster above illustrated with two like poles (i.e., magnets).

Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium 16, November 21, 1964
“But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place among whom are the Muslims: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
 
It was more of a failed attempt at quoting from the Gospel of Cave in response to you. Reading some of the comments here I've lost every last bit of faith in any form of divinity.

Partial-fail. And on my part also.

If you had added a few more italicised ooos then í would have definitely got 'it'.

{That's the only Cave tract that í can blindly worship. Otherwise í dip in and out of atheism}

.
 
Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium 16, November 21, 1964
“But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place among whom are the Muslims: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

Second Vatican Council, Nostra Aetate 3, October 28, 1965
“The Catholic Church rejects nothing of what is true and holy in these religions. She has a high regard for the manner of life and conduct, the precepts and doctrines which, although differing in many ways from her own teaching, nevertheless often reflect a ray of that truth which enlightens all men. Yet she proclaims and is in duty bound to proclaim without fail, Christ who is ‘the way, the truth and the life’ (Jn 1:6). In him, in whom God reconciled all things to himself (cf. 2Co 5:18-19), men find the fullness of their religious life.

“The Church, therefore, urges her sons to enter with prudence and charity into discussion and collaboration with members of other religions. Let Christians, while witnessing to their own faith and way of life, acknowledge, preserve and encourage the spiritual and moral truths found among non-Christians, also their social life and culture.

“The Church has also a high regard for the Muslims. They worship God, who is one, living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth (Cf. St. Gregory VII, Letter III, 21 to Anazir [Al-Nasir], King of Mauretania PL, 148.451A.), who has spoken to men. They strive to submit themselves without reserve to the hidden decrees of God, just as Abraham submitted himself to God’s plan, to whose faith Muslims eagerly link their own. Although not acknowledging him as God, they venerate Jesus as a prophet, his Virgin Mother they also honor, and even at times devoutly invoke. Further, they await the day of judgment and the reward of God following the resurrection of the dead. For this reason they highly esteem an upright life and worship God, especially by way of prayer, alms-deeds and fasting.

“Over the centuries many quarrels and dissensions have arisen between Christians and Muslims. The sacred Council now pleads with all to forget the past, and urges that a sincere effort be made to achieve mutual understanding; for the benefit of all men, let them together preserve and promote peace, liberty, social justice and moral values.”

“Therefore, the Church reproves, as foreign to the mind of Christ, any discrimination against people or any harassment of them on the basis of their race, color, condition in life or religion. Accordingly, following the footsteps of the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, the sacred Council earnestly begs the Christian faithful to ‘conduct themselves well among the Gentiles’ (1P 2:12) and if possible, as far as depends on them, to be at peace with all men (cf. Rm 12:18), and in that way to be true sons of the Father who is in heaven (cf. Mt 5:45).”

Paul VI, Ecclesiam Suam 107, August 6, 1964
“Then [we refer] to the adorers of God according to the conception of monotheism, the Muslim religion especially, deserving of our admiration for all that is true and good in their worship of God.”

Paul VI, “Message to the World,” Bethlehem, January 6, 1964
“We address this reverent greeting in particular to those who profess monotheism and with us direct their religious workshop to the one true God, most high and living, the God of Abraham, the supreme God whom Melchizedek, a mysterious person about whose genealogy and end Scripture tells us nothing, and by whose regal priesthood Christ himself wishes to be characterized, one day, distinct in the past but recalled in the Bible and in the Missal, celebrated as ‘God Most High, maker of heaven and earth” (cf. Gn 14:19; Heb 7; Ps 76:3; 110:4).

“We Christians, informed by revelation, understand God as existing in the three Divine Persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit; however, we celebrate the divine nature as one, as the living and true God. May these peoples, worshipers of the one God, also welcome our best wishes for peace in justice.

“Our greeting is also being addressed to all peoples wherever Our Catholic missions carry the Gospel, and with it an invitation to its universality and a working towards its realization.”
 
Partial-fail. And on my part also.

If you had added a few more italicised ooos then í would have definitely got 'it'.

{That's the only Cave tract that í can blindly worship. Otherwise í dip in and out of atheism}

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I considered adding the affectionate parenthesis for clarity but decided it was slightly inappropriate.

I was gifted "The Best Of Nick Cave and The Bad Seeds" when I was a desperate gloomy teenager (by my own late mother, ironically) and it resonated a lot with me at the time and I still relapse occasionally.
 
I considered adding the affectionate parenthesis for clarity but decided it was slightly inappropriate.

I was gifted "The Best Of Nick Cave and The Bad Seeds" when I was a desperate gloomy teenager (by my own late mother, ironically) and it resonated a lot with me at the time and I still relapse occasionally.

It's a bit like the Catholic Church. And Morrissey. If they get you young & troubled, they're in for life...

{ps ~ Your Mum sounds a cracker}

.
 
Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium 16, November 21, 1964
“But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place among whom are the Muslims: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

Second Vatican Council, Nostra Aetate 3, October 28, 1965
“The Catholic Church rejects nothing of what is true and holy in these religions. She has a high regard for the manner of life and conduct, the precepts and doctrines which, although differing in many ways from her own teaching, nevertheless often reflect a ray of that truth which enlightens all men. Yet she proclaims and is in duty bound to proclaim without fail, Christ who is ‘the way, the truth and the life’ (Jn 1:6). In him, in whom God reconciled all things to himself (cf. 2Co 5:18-19), men find the fullness of their religious life.

“The Church, therefore, urges her sons to enter with prudence and charity into discussion and collaboration with members of other religions. Let Christians, while witnessing to their own faith and way of life, acknowledge, preserve and encourage the spiritual and moral truths found among non-Christians, also their social life and culture.

“The Church has also a high regard for the Muslims. They worship God, who is one, living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth (Cf. St. Gregory VII, Letter III, 21 to Anazir [Al-Nasir], King of Mauretania PL, 148.451A.), who has spoken to men. They strive to submit themselves without reserve to the hidden decrees of God, just as Abraham submitted himself to God’s plan, to whose faith Muslims eagerly link their own. Although not acknowledging him as God, they venerate Jesus as a prophet, his Virgin Mother they also honor, and even at times devoutly invoke. Further, they await the day of judgment and the reward of God following the resurrection of the dead. For this reason they highly esteem an upright life and worship God, especially by way of prayer, alms-deeds and fasting.

“Over the centuries many quarrels and dissensions have arisen between Christians and Muslims. The sacred Council now pleads with all to forget the past, and urges that a sincere effort be made to achieve mutual understanding; for the benefit of all men, let them together preserve and promote peace, liberty, social justice and moral values.”

“Therefore, the Church reproves, as foreign to the mind of Christ, any discrimination against people or any harassment of them on the basis of their race, color, condition in life or religion. Accordingly, following the footsteps of the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, the sacred Council earnestly begs the Christian faithful to ‘conduct themselves well among the Gentiles’ (1P 2:12) and if possible, as far as depends on them, to be at peace with all men (cf. Rm 12:18), and in that way to be true sons of the Father who is in heaven (cf. Mt 5:45).”

Paul VI, Ecclesiam Suam 107, August 6, 1964
“Then [we refer] to the adorers of God according to the conception of monotheism, the Muslim religion especially, deserving of our admiration for all that is true and good in their worship of God.”

Paul VI, “Message to the World,” Bethlehem, January 6, 1964
“We address this reverent greeting in particular to those who profess monotheism and with us direct their religious workshop to the one true God, most high and living, the God of Abraham, the supreme God whom Melchizedek, a mysterious person about whose genealogy and end Scripture tells us nothing, and by whose regal priesthood Christ himself wishes to be characterized, one day, distinct in the past but recalled in the Bible and in the Missal, celebrated as ‘God Most High, maker of heaven and earth” (cf. Gn 14:19; Heb 7; Ps 76:3; 110:4).

“We Christians, informed by revelation, understand God as existing in the three Divine Persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit; however, we celebrate the divine nature as one, as the living and true God. May these peoples, worshipers of the one God, also welcome our best wishes for peace in justice.

“Our greeting is also being addressed to all peoples wherever Our Catholic missions carry the Gospel, and with it an invitation to its universality and a working towards its realization.”

Hi Sinead! Shalom.

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So are you saying there is more than one god? That would have got you burnt once upon a time.

Theologically they are the same god and the religions are different practices of worshiping the same god
I’m Buddhist. I see the divine in the processes afforded by difference.

It’s incredibly reductive, and very post-Christian, to suppose it’s the same God being worshipped. Yours is a very Western perspective: consistent with the awful and disingenuous French idea of laïcité.

God(s) answer the needs of different communities and change in accordance with changing needs.

I’ve been engaged in, and learnt much from, both Jewish and Christian contexts of worship. It’s definitely not the same God being deferred to.
 
You do realise that Adam and Eve were not real and even the Catholic Church says it is not required to believe it literally?

🙄 If bread didn't exist yet why would it be included in the biblical stories - is the point I was making.
 
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Second Vatican was written by commies and Muslims you can
safely disregard it.:blushing:

Muslims dont worship Jesus, but instead worship Mohammed who doesnt exist. Jesus allows beer and capuccino, not so Mohammed so obviously they are not the same. They also believe a pencil created the world. I think we can safely say you can disregard with confidence.:blushing:
 
I’m Buddhist. I see the divine in the processes afforded by difference.

It’s incredibly reductive, and very post-Christian, to suppose it’s the same God being worshipped. Yours is a very Western perspective: consistent with the awful and disingenuous French idea of laïcité.

God(s) answer the needs of different communities and change in accordance with changing needs.

I’ve been engaged in, and learnt much from, both Jewish and Christian contexts of worship. It’s definitely not the same God being deferred to.

Did you not read the instruction from the Vatican from the 2nd Vatican council stating that they are the same god, the god of Abraham? This is completely agreed by Islam, Judaism and Christianity.

But you know better than all of them?

There are a lot of Catholics posting on here and the prayers being posted are of Catholic origin as is Betty, Morrissey and Sam and it is a grave sin for a Catholic to disregard the instruction of the Vatican Council so by disputing this you offend many Catholics.
 
🙄 If bread didn't exist yet why would it be included in the biblical stories - is the point I was making.
Maybe but in said bible the first war is mentioned in Exodus and is the war of the golden calf and has nothing to do with bread.
 
Did you not read the instruction from the Vatican from the 2nd Vatican council stating that they are the same god, the god of Abraham? This is completely agreed by Islam, Judaism and Christianity.

But you know better than all of them?

There are a lot of Catholics posting on here and the prayers being posted are of Catholic origin as is Betty, Morrissey and Sam and it is a grave sin for a Catholic to disregard the instruction of the Vatican Council so by disputing this you offend many Catholics.
The Pope would have good reason to say that. As I’ve said, it’s a very (post) Christian perspective; one which answers a Christian need for omnipresence.

Go speak to an Imam and a Rabbi, then come back.
 
Did you not read the instruction from the Vatican from the 2nd Vatican council stating that they are the same god, the god of Abraham? This is completely agreed by Islam, Judaism and Christianity.

But you know better than all of them?

There are a lot of Catholics posting on here and the prayers being posted are of Catholic origin as is Betty, Morrissey and Sam and it is a grave sin for a Catholic to disregard the instruction of the Vatican Council so by disputing this you offend many Catholics.






Morrissey said .....

“and our collective pleas of petition might wake the sleeping gods


Hope he doesn’t upset the Vatican with his belief that there are more than just one god.


:cool:
 
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Second Vatican was written by commies and Muslims you can
safely disregard it.:blushing:

Muslims dont worship Jesus, but instead worship Mohammed who doesnt exist. Jesus allows beer and capuccino, not so Mohammed so obviously they are not the same. They also believe a pencil created the world. I think we can safely say you can disregard with confidence.:blushing:

Why would Mohammed and Jesus be the same? No one says that.

Muslims revere Jesus as a prophet and Mary as his mother.

As a Catholic it isn’t possible to disregard the Vatican Council. It would get you excommunicated and was predominately written by the most revered pope throughout the history of Christianity next to Peter.

But passages of Paul in the bible state the similar thing. So you disregard those too?
 

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