Wikileaks story

[Anaesthesine]

I hear you, and as usual you provide food for thought and stern sense. But I don't think you're going to get that revolution. There may be an unending stream of information warriors, but information is in fact very easy to protect so well that it is nearly impossible to get to it. If there is any lasting effects of this, that is going to be it, in my opinion. I have no idea of the details of US communications systems, but I'd be surprised if that couldn't be implemented more or less at a flick of a switch, simply by changing routines. Once you restrict the sort of information that has been leaked here to essentially the people who have a direct need for it, you remove nearly all the risk. Even with more than 2 million people with access, nearly none of whom had any personal involvement with the information produced, there were only one single person who actually leaked. And if you actually devote resources to it, you can easily make things much more difficult still. It makes your system less functional and things more cumbersome, but that's possible to live with if neccessary.

My family experience was with actual paper documents: everything had to be burnt and buried, and the ashes had to be raked every single day. I wonder how much information leaked back then (quite a bit, I would think). I wonder if electronic documents are more or less secure - they are certainly easier to disseminate.

We shall see what happens; the possibilities are astounding.

 

[Theo]

There is nothing in the world right now that can get in the way of the United States devolving into the most lethal despotic regime in human history.

Remember this the next time level-headed Worm calls Tea Partiers the latest slurs he heard on MSNBC.

 

[Qvist]

Oh, we don't need MSNBC for that. The Tea Party movement is so self-evidently off its rocker that they don't even need adjectives.

 

[MILVA]

The Guardian ran an informative piece on the Swedish allegations against Assange this weekend:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/18/julian-assange-allegations-wikileaks-cables?intcmp=239

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-sweden

 

[Qvist]

Thank God that there are finally some sensible voices around in this issue. The storm of abuse heaped on the girls who filed the complaint is deeply disturbing, as well as utterly distasteful. Assange's lawyer's behavior on this issue is just beneath contempt.

Assange himself is damaging the legitimacy of what he's doing at Wikileaks by linking it with the rape allegations. Both his opponents and his supporters need to keep these issues separate. I can't believe anyone can be so stupid that they actually think the US is pulling the strings of a Swedish public prosecutor. I guess the comparisons of Assange to Jason Bourne and James Bond is revealing for what kind of imaginary mental landscape some people are forming their opinions in. And that idiot Michael Moore is just really beginning to seriously annoy me. Obviously it doesn't take much more complexity than the obvious idiocy of US gun laws (even he couldn't f*** up Bowling for Columbine) before he has trouble staying in the real world. With friends like him, you really don't need enemies.

 

[Emil]

Thank God that there are finally some sensible voices around in this issue. The storm of abuse heaped on the girls who filed the complaint is deeply disturbing, as well as utterly distasteful. Assange's lawyer's behavior on this issue is just beneath contempt.

I couldn't agree more, it's really appalling. Here's an answer (in english), from a swedish lawyer, to the letter of Michael Moore:

http://juridikbloggen.wordpress.com/

 

[Qvist]

I couldn't agree more, it's really appalling. Here's an answer (in english), from a swedish lawyer, to the letter of Michael Moore:

http://juridikbloggen.wordpress.com/

Good riposte. Moore's point is just so self-contradictory. He's lambasting Sweden for not prosecuting enough rapes, and arguing that consequently they should just let Assange walk?

You wonder also if stereotyped American ideas about the sexual morals of Swedish girls play into some people's assumptions here.

 

[Emil]

Good riposte. Moore's point is just so self-contradictory. He's lambasting Sweden for not prosecuting enough rapes, and arguing that consequently they should just let Assange walk?

You wonder also if stereotyped American ideas about the sexual morals of Swedish girls play into some people's assumptions here.

It's really sad to see how otherwise sane persons have reacted in relation to the accusations against Assange. It's as if people are unable to keep two thoughts in the head at the same time. Wikileaks as an organisation and Assange as a private individual are two different things.

 

[I am a Ghost]

Who's Julian?

 

[Anaesthesine]

What a fascinating, unholy mess. Michael Moore really did hit the wrong notes (and I've supported his efforts in the past). As for Naomi Woolf, she's always been an unwavering voice for compassion and sanity when it comes to women's issues. She has a fair and valid point:

"Never in twenty-three years of reporting on and supporting victims of sexual assault around the world have I ever heard of a case of a man sought by two nations, and held in solitary confinement without bail in advance of being questioned -- for any alleged rape, even the most brutal or easily proven. In terms of a case involving the kinds of ambiguities and complexities of the alleged victims' complaints -- sex that began consensually that allegedly became non-consensual when dispute arose around a condom -- please find me, anywhere in the world, another man in prison today without bail on charges of anything comparable."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/jaccuse-sweden-britain-an_b_795899.html

Ms. Wolf's point being that sexual violence against women is an everyday occurrence (in varying levels of brutality) all across the globe, and in the vast majority of cases (including the most violent) it goes unpunished. This is an extraordinary prosecution - that's not to say that the charges should not be taken seriously, or the plaintiff's claims dismissed in any way, but to pretend that this is business as usual is simply naive.

Ms. Wolf's point about the brutality against women in Afghanistan as reason for US troops to remain is equally disquieting: people in power tend not to care about women's rights issues until they become an excuse for some other agenda.

Here's an answer (in english), from a swedish lawyer, to the letter of Michael Moore:

http://juridikbloggen.wordpress.com/

Now that is some high-quality international snark.

Who's Julian?

 

[Mars_Rover]

I couldn't agree more, it's really appalling. Here's an answer (in english), from a swedish lawyer, to the letter of Michael Moore:

http://juridikbloggen.wordpress.com/

That is excellent, thanks for sharing. "A foliehatt is a hat made by tin foil." The whole tone of that letter is brilliant, gentle satire.

I like Michael Moore's work and am disappointed that he had seemed to brush off the date rape accusations against Assange so blithely. But he presented his position quite well on the Rachel Maddow show last night, and said he is in strong support of rape victims. He started the first rape crisis center in his hometown when he was 18.

Ovist writes, "You wonder also if stereotyped American ideas about the sexual morals of Swedish girls play into some people's assumptions here."
God, I hope not. Most people in America know, I assume, that the Scandinavian countries are the most progressive on issues of gender equality. I think it's more to do with not being able to separate the person from his work.

 

[Emil]

What a fascinating, unholy mess. Michael Moore really did hit the wrong notes (and I've supported his efforts in the past). As for Naomi Woolf, she's always been an unwavering voice for compassion and sanity when it comes to women's issues. She has a fair and valid point:

"Never in twenty-three years of reporting on and supporting victims of sexual assault around the world have I ever heard of a case of a man sought by two nations, and held in solitary confinement without bail in advance of being questioned -- for any alleged rape, even the most brutal or easily proven. In terms of a case involving the kinds of ambiguities and complexities of the alleged victims' complaints -- sex that began consensually that allegedly became non-consensual when dispute arose around a condom -- please find me, anywhere in the world, another man in prison today without bail on charges of anything comparable."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/jaccuse-sweden-britain-an_b_795899.html

Ms. Wolf's point being that sexual violence against women is an everyday occurrence (in varying levels of brutality) all across the globe, and in the vast majority of cases (including the most violent) it goes unpunished. This is an extraordinary prosecution - that's not to say that the charges should not be taken seriously, or the plaintiff's claims dismissed in any way, but to pretend that this is business as usual is simply naive.

Ms. Wolf's point about the brutality against women in Afghanistan as reason for US troops to remain is equally disquieting: people in power tend not to care about women's rights issues until they become an excuse for some other agenda.

That I agree on but at the same time I find it appalling the way that Assange claims that the accusations are just a conspiracy, that the women have been used by the police to get to him. He should face up to the accusations.

Btw, what does "snark" mean.

 

[Mars_Rover]

You didn't ask me but snark is sarcasm.

Turns out Keith Olbermann has been an even bigger dick than Michael Moore, not only accusing one of the Swedish women of having (foliehatt alert!) ties to the CIA but worse, disclosing her name.

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/12/17/sady_doyle_olbermann_twitter

 

[Anaesthesine]

That I agree on but at the same time I find it appalling the way that Assange claims that the accusations are just a conspiracy, that the women have been used by the police to get to him. He should face up to the accusations.

Yes, it is appalling behavior (if his assertions are untrue), but hardly unique to someone in Assange's situation.

Btw, what does "snark" mean.

As for snark, it is sarcasm, but in the internet age it has been raised to a whole new art form: I believe the term originally came from the union of "snide" and "remark."

 

[Happy Maudlin]

Is anyone else annoyed by Assange's arrogance?

 

[Emil]

Is anyone else annoyed by Assange's arrogance?

Quite.

 

[Qvist]

Ms. Wolf's point being that sexual violence against women is an everyday occurrence (in varying levels of brutality) all across the globe, and in the vast majority of cases (including the most violent) it goes unpunished. This is an extraordinary prosecution - that's not to say that the charges should not be taken seriously, or the plaintiff's claims dismissed in any way, but to pretend that this is business as usual is simply naive.

I'm sorry, but no, it isn't naive. The decision rests with the public prosecutor. I don't know how it is in the States, but in Sweden I'm pretty sure it would be considered an intolerable breach of office if some minister was found to be leaning on the prosecutor to influence the decision. The press would be all over it if they had anything at all to go on, and the minister in question would probably not survive it politically.

Also, I don't understand what is so extraordinary about this prosecution. Assange was wanted for questioning and due to appear, but chose not to turn up. Hence, he is wanted for questioning.

 

[Anaesthesine]

I'm sorry, but no, it isn't naive. The decision rests with the public prosecutor. I don't know how it is in the States, but in Sweden I'm pretty sure it would be considered an intolerable breach of office if some minister was found to be leaning on the prosecutor to influence the decision. The press would be all over it if they had anything at all to go on, and the minister in question would probably not survive it politically.

Also, I don't understand what is so extraordinary about this prosecution. Assange was wanted for questioning and due to appear, but chose not to turn up. Hence, he is wanted for questioning.

The facts of the story so far are: a man had sex with two women, and there was some dispute about a broken condom and initial allegations of "sex by surprise" and unlawful coercion. These seem to be "misdemeanor rape" charges that are punishable by a fine. The case was apparently dropped in the first 24 hours after being reviewed by the chief prosecutor, and the women involved requested that the man have himself tested for sexually transmitted diseases. The man refused to take their calls and after a matter of weeks left the country.

A lawyer was then hired by the two accusers, and the man was called in for questioning, but not charged with any criminal offense.

This is the entirety of the case as I understand it. You are correct, when someone refuses to appear for questioning, it is not extraordinary for him to be legally requisitioned. However, the resultant international manhunt and solitary confinement (initially without bail) seems extraordinary.

I think that Assange has a screw loose and is not a very nice person (although he is certainly striking a blow for transparency), but I believe that this is not simply legal business-as-usual, and if we were not talking about the man behind wikileaks, events would most certainly never have taken such a dramatic turn.

 

[Black Cloud]

I think that Assange has a screw loose and is not a very nice person (although he is certainly striking a blow for transparency), but I believe that this is not simply legal business-as-usual, and if we were not talking about the man behind wikileaks, events would most certainly never have taken such a dramatic turn.

I wholly agree.

I can't stop laughing at all of the LeakyWicks jokes, though...

 

[I am a Ghost]

You didn't ask me but snark is sarcasm.

There is also a story called "The Hunting of the Snark" by Lewis Carroll, published in 1874. It features an Assange-like character, along with a beaver.