The Smiths abortive attempt to continue (1987)

[Anonymous]

That said, Mike Joyce was there, despite the fact that he had already begun legal proceedings against Morrissey (and Johnny) at that point. I always found that very peculiar, given how strongly Morrissey holds grudges.

I think all of the other ex-Smiths present were suing Morrissey and Marr by the time of the Wolverhampton show - Joyce, Rourke and Gannon.

 

[Young And Alive]

I think all of the other ex-Smiths present were suing Morrissey and Marr by the time of the Wolverhampton show - Joyce, Rourke and Gannon.

Imagine, for argument’s sake, that Jesse and Brendan were suing him now. Do we think he’d retain their services in the band?

I can only surmise that in 1988 Morrissey’s desire to get back on stage outweighed any misgivings he had about Joyce and co. and that he simply didn’t know who else to perform with.

I mean, he could have asked Vini Reilly and Stephen Street?

 

[JerryCan]

No I think Tony Wilson's hold over Vini's stopped any further working together. I seem to remember SS wanted to be on stage at Wolverhampton but Moz said no.

 

[Young And Alive]

No I think Tony Wilson's hold over Vini's stopped any further working together. I seem to remember SS wanted to be on stage at Wolverhampton but Moz said no.

Pretty disrespectful of him.

I wonder why he thought Gannon, Rourke and Joyce were more worthy of a place on the stage.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Pretty disrespectful of him.

I wonder why he thought Gannon, Rourke and Joyce were more worthy of a place on the stage.

probably because they were in The Smiths. So it just felt more comfortable for him, especially as it was a farewell gig.

 

[JerryCan]

That concert is weird, it seems like a lot of wishful thinking was going on and it would have been great if somehow Johnny had actually reappeared then. That is another timeline denied us all.

I've just recently re-watched the excellent Inside the Smiths doc on youtube, from Andy & Mike's perspective. It's well made but stirs up all the regrets.

I blame the poorly written (or lack of) contracts at Rough Trade. Ironically a bigger/uncool label might have nailed it all down properly.

 

[slick]

Pretty disrespectful of him.

I wonder why he thought Gannon, Rourke and Joyce were more worthy of a place on the stage.

Wasn't there (or still is) a whole feud between Steven Street and Vini over who actually wrote the songs on "Viva Hate"?
Or is this mystery solved...

 

[JerryCan]

Wasn't there (or still is) a whole feud between Steven Street and Vini over who actually wrote the songs on "Viva Hate"?
Or is this mystery solved...

It's solved - SS said so at Julie's latest event. He & Vini were cool over it all now. It was good to hear that one put to rest.

 

[slick]

It's solved - SS said so at Julie's latest event. He & Vini were cool over it all now. It was good to hear that one put to rest.

It always confuses me why petty things get in the way of good relationships... it seems many things would be better if people left their egos behind! Though this is likely common sense.
Also, I don't assume he actually said who wrote the songs... I would imagine it was an equal amount of work put in from both parties though. I also distinctly remember a documentary about Morrissey where Vini seemed absolutely pissed about everything the entire duration of the film.

 

[Young And Alive]

That concert is weird, it seems like a lot of wishful thinking was going on and it would have been great if somehow Johnny had actually reappeared then. That is another timeline denied us all.

I've just recently re-watched the excellent Inside the Smiths doc on youtube, from Andy & Mike's perspective. It's well made but stirs up all the regrets.

I blame the poorly written (or lack of) contracts at Rough Trade. Ironically a bigger/uncool label might have nailed it all down properly.

Joe Moss was their manager. He should have ensured that all four members of the band had a contract.

He may have been Johnny's mate but he had a duty of care to each band member, not just Johnny.

 

[JerryCan]

I also distinctly remember a documentary about Morrissey where Vini seemed absolutely pissed about everything the entire duration of the film.

Yes that doc is what everyone thinks of now sadly. But Steven said he's since sorted it all with Vini, he'd not been dealing with things well when that doc went out and it was all cast in stone from then on.

 

[JerryCan]

Joe Moss was their manager. He should have ensured that all four members of the band had a contract.

He may have been Johnny's mate but he had a duty of care to each band member, not just Johnny.

Maybe he knew he'd missed the moment. Imagine trying to pick the right time and to try to sort such a massive issue and actually see things in writing.

But I seem to recall M had actually left a recording session to dash down to London to get splits worked out. In his mind it was sorted. Probably made it all the more distressing when it turned out there was no record of any agreements.

 

[Jamie]

I seem to remember SS wanted to be on stage at Wolverhampton but Moz said no.

That's true. If you'll pardon me, he was truly, truly disappointed to not be included.

Pretty disrespectful of him.

I wonder why he thought Gannon, Rourke and Joyce were more worthy of a place on the stage.

I think it was one of two things, or some combination thereof:

1. By Wolverhampton, it was clear the Smiths were never going to reform and it served as a tribute/funeral of sorts. Since Street was not part of the performing unit of four (Gannon obviously standing in for JM), it didn't make sense to include him.

2. In Morrissey's mind Street was "the producer" and he felt there should be a separation of duties. Only Johnny, for obvious reasons, got a pass.

The only time Street - or Reilly and Paresi, for that matter - played with Morrissey outside the studio was for the lost John Peel session recorded with the core Viva Hate band.

 

[JerryCan]

The only time Street - or Reilly and Paresi, for that matter - played with Morrissey outside the studio was for the lost John Peel session recorded with the core Viva Hate band.

Wow I never realised that ever happened. Would be fantastic to hear that one!

 

[Crisstti]

Pretty disrespectful of him.

I wonder why he thought Gannon, Rourke and Joyce were more worthy of a place on the stage.

I could be misremembering, but didn't Street say or suggest that it was Rourke and Joyce who didn't want him there?

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

who wouldn’t want to hear those Ivor Perry co-writes though!

Supposedly two songs, one a version of Bengali, and the other one?
Does anyone know?

Smiths-guitarist-for-a-day Ivor Perry responds to Stephen Street – SuperDeluxeEdition

superdeluxeedition.com

 

[Crisstti]

Wow I never realised that ever happened. Would be fantastic to hear that one!

Had never heard about that either! Lost?

 

[Crisstti]

About Morrissey and the others being able to continue using the Smiths name without Johnny, I'm not sure Johnny would have had much legal ground to stop them. He, after all, had left the band.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Had never heard about that either! Lost?

‘John Peel radio session circa November 1987Morrissey went into the Maida Vale studios to record a 4-song session for John Peel's programme, but it was never completed nor broadcast. Very little is known about the sessions, besides the fact that it included "Suedehead" and "Margaret On The Guillotine".

Margaret On The Guillotine

 

[Amy]

About Morrissey and the others being able to continue using the Smiths name without Johnny, I'm not sure Johnny would have had much legal ground to stop them. He, after all, had left the band.

He did have legal grounds because 'The Smiths' was Morrissey and him, they co-signed the contracts. In October 1987, Johnny dissolved Morrissey & Marr Songs Ltd (their publishing company) and changed his publishing to Marr Songs Ltd which it still is.