Morrissey in Slate: "Our Dylan"

Worm

Taste the diffidence
I was waiting for somebody else to post this, surprised nobody has.

Slate's critic on Morrissey

Stephen Metcalf is a great critic. I'm glad to know he likes Morrissey.

He wrote an excellent essay-- a million times better than anything Morrissey-related that's been published on Slate before-- although I didn't like the last paragraph. Metcalf missed the significance of the point he himself made about the weird Nietzschean self-empowerment in the lyrics: Morrissey's way of pining for peace, justice and love in the world might in fact be Dylan's in disguise. I say it is-- if you squint hard enough, you can see it. :rolleyes:
 
He's a fan, but certainly not complimentary, especially in the last paragraph. His comparison to Dylan is not meant in a positive sense, but rather a juxtaposition (ie. "suffering egotist").
 
That reads like disillusionment to me.

I love this: Rock singers had blasted the trumpet of Nietzschean triumph before; they had mewed like Keatsian lambs. But before Morrissey, had anyone done both? In the same breath? I also appreciate anyone who uses the word "weltschcmerz" more than once in an essay about Morrissey.

However, Stephen Metcalf heaps praise upon Morrissey for his uncanny ability to communicate complex emotions and break the listener's heart, and then finishes up by saying that "Our Dylan" is a shallow, selfish narcissist, signifying nothing.

What a way to condemn not only a singer, but a generation.

Bleak.
 
That reads like disillusionment to me.

I love this: Rock singers had blasted the trumpet of Nietzschean triumph before; they had mewed like Keatsian lambs. But before Morrissey, had anyone done both? In the same breath? I also appreciate anyone who uses the word "weltschcmerz" more than once in an essay about Morrissey.

However, Stephen Metcalf heaps praise upon Morrissey for his uncanny ability to communicate complex emotions and break the listener's heart, and then finishes up by saying that "Our Dylan" is a shallow, selfish narcissist, signifying nothing.

What a way to condemn not only a singer, but a generation.

Bleak.

The essay opens itself up to a pretty obvious attack, which is that the Dylan comparison is tossed in at the end like a lobbed grenade. He writes about Morrissey flatteringly as a "voice of a generation" artist, but doesn't explicitly address Morrissey as a voice for progressive politics, someone expected to rally the kids to certain causes. It's a different rubric to consider. Dylan had that extra, outward-looking political dimension, maybe, but does it follow that Morrissey should? And if you make that argument, aren't you also forced into taking the rather dubious position that the Sixties were no different than the Eighties?

As I said I've read Metcalf a lot on Slate and I like him. I think he could take on these questions intelligently. Once you ask why Morrissey wasn't a "protest singer" in the mold of a Dylan, you get into all sorts of thorny issues that require more space. I'd love to read his views on that, but maybe this was meant to be a short piece. He gets the benefit of the doubt from me. :)
 
i use to read Slate a lot, i stopped about 6 months ago :confused:
anyways, "the review" is really about the man and not his music
even though the reviewer tries to pretend otherwise :cool:
still, its positive :thumb:
however, Dylan is my Dylan and Morrissey is the only Morrissey, only more so :straightface:
 
The essay opens itself up to a pretty obvious attack, which is that the Dylan comparison is tossed in at the end like a lobbed grenade. He writes about Morrissey flatteringly as a "voice of a generation" artist, but doesn't explicitly address Morrissey as a voice for progressive politics, someone expected to rally the kids to certain causes. It's a different rubric to consider. Dylan had that extra, outward-looking political dimension, maybe, but does it follow that Morrissey should? And if you make that argument, aren't you also forced into taking the rather dubious position that the Sixties were no different than the Eighties?

As I said I've read Metcalf a lot on Slate and I like him. I think he could take on these questions intelligently. Once you ask why Morrissey wasn't a "protest singer" in the mold of a Dylan, you get into all sorts of thorny issues that require more space. I'd love to read his views on that, but maybe this was meant to be a short piece. He gets the benefit of the doubt from me. :)

Metcalf is obviously a sophisticated journalist, but he is way off-base here. Morrissey was never "our Dylan." As you point out, he was not a protest singer, and never aspired to be one. He did not rally the troops to fight in the political arena, he exalted our inner recluse, and raised personal defiance to the highest art form.

Morrissey was more like our Walt Whitman - his lyrics are a Song of Myself. He took us from the deeply personal to the universal, with all the hope and solipsism that implies.

"The personal is political" was the 80s rallying cry. Right or wrong, Morrissey is the exemplar of that philosophy.
 
I agree. I don't think Morrissey ever aspired to be the voice of a generation. I think he knows he's too unusual to ever speak for most people.
 
Metcalf is obviously a sophisticated journalist, but he is way off-base here. Morrissey was never "our Dylan." As you point out, he was not a protest singer, and never aspired to be one. He did not rally the troops to fight in the political arena, he exalted our inner recluse, and raised personal defiance to the highest art form.

Morrissey was more like our Walt Whitman - his lyrics are a Song of Myself. He took us from the deeply personal to the universal, with all the hope and solipsism that implies.

"The personal is political" was the 80s rallying cry. Right or wrong, Morrissey is the exemplar of that philosophy.

Yes, Morrissey never aspired to be a "protest singer" but I think, as you nicely say, he probably agreed with the notion that "the personal is the political", and in that sense his Whitmanesque solipsism is iindirectly a political statement, and in my opinion a strong one at that. "I've never had a job because I've never wanted one" is a political statement, just as it was to say he was miserable and ill and all the rest. The new order cannot begin until we reject the existing one.

It just underscores the idea that Metcalf didn't have room to tackle, namely that "protest" means different things in different eras. "England is mine and it owes me a living" is radical against the backdrop of Thatcherism/Reaganism, for example. On the other hand, "socially conscious music" of the sort Dylan made became risible in the Eighties with "Live Aid" and all the rest. Not only that, Sixties progressive politics as expressed in pop culture, partly because of Dylan himself, had become drenched in exactly the sort of thing Metcalf knocks Morrissey for: narcissism and shallow theatrics.

Morrissey was as radical as Dylan. He was just going about it differently.

All of this is interesting placed side by side with U2, a band in the Eighties who deliberately took up the flag of the Sixties "protest singer" movement. In the Eighties, Bono espoused Christianity and spoke out against violence in Northern Ireland and various conflicts, particularly the U.S. intervention in Nicaragua. In the Aughties, he's dining with Presidents and asking people to change the world by-- wait for it-- shopping. Kind of an instructive personality arc, I think, and a test case for showing that what Metcalf may have wanted from Morrissey was impossible.
 
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:nicethread:
having said that I and as much I love Dylan(especially songs like Positively 4th Street)
we few, we proud few Moz fans are not like that mass of old dirty hippies that were supposed to change the world, but did not really, did they?
we have our "refusal" as it we were
1106ck8.gif

we like to think we never "sold out"(or not for very long at least :lbf:)
Moz is an icon of this, the top one in "pop music" i believe
is Bob Dylan like that?
maybe the man is, but certainly not that lot who sang along to his protest songs then mostly sold their children down the river :cool:
 
:nicethread:
having said that I and as much I love Dylan(especially songs like Positively 4th Street)
we few, we proud few Moz fans are not like that mass of old dirty hippies that were supposed to change the world, but did not really, did they?
we have our "refusal" as it we were
1106ck8.gif

we like to think we never "sold out"(or not for very long at least :lbf:)
Moz is an icon of this, the top one in "pop music" i believe
is Bob Dylan like that?
maybe the man is, but certainly not that lot who sang along to his protest songs then mostly sold their children down the river :cool:

:clap::clap::bow:
 
Yes, Morrissey never aspired to be a "protest singer" but I think, as you nicely say, he probably agreed with the notion that "the personal is the political", and in that sense his Whitmanesque solipsism is iindirectly a political statement, and in my opinion a strong one at that. "I've never had a job because I've never wanted one" is a political statement, just as it was to say he was miserable and ill and all the rest. The new order cannot begin until we reject the existing one.

It just underscores the idea that Metcalf didn't have room to tackle, namely that "protest" means different things in different eras. "England is mine and it owes me a living" is radical against the backdrop of Thatcherism/Reaganism, for example. On the other hand, "socially conscious music" of the sort Dylan made became risible in the Eighties with "Live Aid" and all the rest. Not only that, Sixties progressive politics as expressed in pop culture, partly because of Dylan himself, had become drenched in exactly the sort of thing Metcalf knocks Morrissey for: narcissism and shallow theatrics.

Morrissey was indeed as radical as Dylan. He was just going about it differently.

All of this is interesting placed side by side with U2, a band in the Eighties who deliberately took up the flag of the Sixties "protest singer" movement. In the Eighties, Bono espoused Christianity and spoke out against violence in Northern Ireland and various conflicts, particularly the U.S. intervention in Nicaragua. In the Aughties, he's dining with Presidents and asking people to change the world by-- wait for it-- shopping. Kind of an instructive personality arc, I think, and a test case for showing that what Metcalf may have wanted from Morrissey was impossible.

You are always so thorough. :)

Yes, Morrissey and Dylan were effective radicals of very different stripes. Still, I won't back down - Metcalf is damning Morrissey for being a failed version of Dylan - a kind of rebel without a cause. That is not fair.

As for protest - the 80s had plenty of it (at least here in the States). Reagan gave rise to an entire hardcore movement that spawned some righteous hollering. There were rallies and marches and people chaining themselves to fences. Maybe Jello Biafra was our Dylan (you could make that case, although not without laughing).

As for Bono - I suppose he is most obviously Dylan's successor, and has taken the spirit of the thing to a whole new level by flirting with the World Bank. I both admire the effort, and mourn the failure it implies.
 
Yes, Morrissey never aspired to be a "protest singer" but I think, as you nicely say, he probably agreed with the notion that "the personal is the political", and in that sense his Whitmanesque solipsism is iindirectly a political statement, and in my opinion a strong one at that. "I've never had a job because I've never wanted one" is a political statement, just as it was to say he was miserable and ill and all the rest. The someone who would claim the idealistic demands made on Dylan, and succeed.new order cannot begin until we reject the existing one.

It just underscores the idea that Metcalf didn't have room to tackle, namely that "protest" means different things in different eras. "England is mine and it owes me a living" is radical against the backdrop of Thatcherism/Reaganism, for example. On the other hand, "socially conscious music" of the sort Dylan made became risible in the Eighties with "Live Aid" and all the rest. Not only that, Sixties progressive politics as expressed in pop culture, partly because of Dylan himself, had become drenched in exactly the sort of thing Metcalf knocks Morrissey for: narcissism and shallow theatrics.

Morrissey was as radical as Dylan. He was just going about it differently.


I don't know a lot about Dylan but I got the impression he did not take eagerly the mantle of spokesperson for his generation. Rather, wanted to speak his own beliefs and challenge listeners to think for themselves. He was prepared to offend those who demanded he fulfilled the role of protest singer, and did his own thing, like it or not.
Dylan was around at a time when people still believed in the power of the people to change things, there was some optimism.

By the time Morrissey came along, people were already deeply disillusioned with politics. But he spoke the same message, the Individual versus the Machine. The rage against authority common to both. In Hot Press interview Morrissey was quoted as saying he believed anger is the principal motivation informing most great pop albums.

Yet “Shame is the name” is about observing the young, and judging them. "Is this what you were born for" is hardly a rallying cry to rebel, but a critique of purposeless self-indulgence by the individual, while the politicians carry on as before.
Like many of us, Morrissey may be asking himself
“Is this the sum of your life?” (while rumours of autobiography mutate).

Could “Refusal” be just what the reviewer didn't want to hear. “I won't be all the things you wanted me to be”. “I never was”.

The reviewer may have had unrealistic expectations, and been waylaid by the very thing he was trying to assert...
"Rock stars have always told a double lie: I am a superhuman you could never hope to emulate; I am exactly like you."
 
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I don't know if I want to read this! I think I'd kind of like my two heroes to stay quite separate.
 
I don't know if I want to read this! I think I'd kind of like my two heroes to stay quite separate.

My thread title's misleading. The article is 99% Morrissey, 1% Dylan. We just like to nitpick.
 
I just wanted to add my 2 cents. Morrissey has the capacity and sensibility to write about the most deep, primal and basic feelings, the way no one else does, and to express thoughtful views and analysis of everyday situations that sometimes you're not confortable with, because it's all highly personal. And because of that, He will always speak to the hearts of the ones who listen and most of his music is and will always be timeless. I'd say that Morrissey is not the voice of his generation, but rather the voice of everyone who dares to be himself/herself and so he was/is/ and will always be radical, like Anaesthesine said.

In the 80's, as pointed out, in his lyrics there were questions and thoughs that chalenged and even changed some of us : Vegetarianism, Faminism, Gay rights, Individualism... some kids got into poetry, etc - these are all political and quite important as well.

Finally, Morrissey has another thing going for him, honesty - that comparison in the last paragragh says more about the jornalist expectations than anything else. I agree with Dunya on that, and also about Dylan, when you say that he did not take eagerly the mantle of spokesperson for his generation. Rather, wanted to speak his own beliefs and challenge listeners to think for themselves. It's true - you can see him saying that to a journalit, on the documentary "don't Look back", which followed him on tour in 1965.

Morrissey and Dylan are different, and I'm glad it is so - it's almost a sacrilege to pick on such greats. Just look around... how many more are there?
 
I don't know a lot about Dylan but I got the impression he did not take eagerly the mantle of spokesperson for his generation. Rather, wanted to speak his own beliefs and challenge listeners to think for themselves. He was prepared to offend those who demanded he fulfilled the role of protest singer, and did his own thing, like it or not.
Dylan was around at a time when people still believed in the power of the people to change things, there was some optimism.

Very true, people took Dylan's his words as powerful rallying cries, whether he intended it or not. His career coincided with a great wave of naivete.

By the time Morrissey came along, people were already deeply disillusioned with politics. But he spoke the same message, the Individual versus the Machine. The rage against authority common to both. In Hot Press interview Morrissey was quoted as saying he believed anger is the principal motivation informing most great pop albums.

By the time The Smiths came along, everything had gone to Hell with Reagan and AIDS, trickle-down economic theory and the Religious Right. It was an awful time - the "revolution" had been brief, and the backlash was brutal. Large scale political action was a thing of the past, but being politically organized and fighting back became an underground cultural obsession. The Smiths made it seem like a solitary refusal to cooperate could actually change the world. Morrissey is 1000% right - anger is the greatest motivating principle in pop. I love him for saying that.

Yet “Shame is the name” is about observing the young, and judging them. "Is this what you were born for" is hardly a rallying cry to rebel, but a critique of purposeless self-indulgence by the individual, while the politicians carry on as before.
Like many of us, Morrissey may be asking himself
“Is this the sum of your life?” (while rumours of autobiography mutate).

Yes, it's very sad, isn't it? Politicians are just self-indulged teens all grown up. They continue to grind us into the ground while the young self-medicate, in an endless parade of selfish indifference and the resultant destruction. I think it's a terribly bleak song, devoid of hope. Morrissey does seem to be taking stock these days (as one does at fifty, I suppose) and finding that what once seemed terribly important may have really been just a good time.

Could “Refusal” be just what the reviewer didn't want to hear. “I won't be all the things you wanted me to be”. “I never was”.

The reviewer may have had unrealistic expectations, and been waylaid by the very thing he was trying to assert...
"Rock stars have always told a double lie: I am a superhuman you could never hope to emulate; I am exactly like you."

Yes, but The Critic still gives Dylan props for being an altruistic leader, and Morrissey stick for being nothing but an attention seeker. You could reverse these two things; Dylan gave up his role (which he may have never wanted in the first place) and broke with the movement, but Morrissey never stopped believing in the power of song to illuminate his innermost landscape, thus empowering bookish, shy, socially awkward, despairing, ambiguous and eccentric listeners everywhere to rejoice in their difference. Morrissey still gives voice to those emotions people least want to confront (especially now we're all older and presumably wiser). He's stated that he's a man on a mission, which he has not yet abandoned. No singer could ever topple damaging social norms single-handedly, but Moz (like Dylan) gave it his best shot.
 
Very true, people took Dylan's his words as powerful rallying cries, whether he intended it or not. His career coincided with a great wave of naivete.

By the time The Smiths came along, everything had gone to Hell with Reagan and AIDS, trickle-down economic theory and the Religious Right. It was an awful time - the "revolution" had been brief, and the backlash was brutal. Large scale political action was a thing of the past, but being politically organized and fighting back became an underground cultural obsession. The Smiths made it seem like a solitary refusal to cooperate could actually change the world. Morrissey is 1000% right - anger is the greatest motivating principle in pop. I love him for saying that.

Yes, it's very sad, isn't it? Politicians are just self-indulged teens all grown up. They continue to grind us into the ground while the young self-medicate, in an endless parade of selfish indifference and the resultant destruction. I think it's a terribly bleak song, devoid of hope. Morrissey does seem to be taking stock these days (as one does at fifty, I suppose) and finding that what once seemed terribly important may have really been just a good time.

Yes, but The Critic still gives Dylan props for being an altruistic leader, and Morrissey stick for being nothing but an attention seeker. You could reverse these two things; Dylan gave up his role (which he may have never wanted in the first place) and broke with the movement, but Morrissey never stopped believing in the power of song to illuminate his innermost landscape, thus empowering bookish, shy, socially awkward, despairing, ambiguous and eccentric listeners everywhere to rejoice in their difference. Morrissey still gives voice to those emotions people least want to confront (especially now we're all older and presumably wiser). He's stated that he's a man on a mission, which he has not yet abandoned. No singer could ever topple damaging social norms single-handedly, but Moz (like Dylan) gave it his best shot.

"Anger is the sinew of the soul; without it, a man would be lame". - Shelagh Delaney

Excellent post, Anaesthesine. Not much one can add to that!

Being thorough, however :rolleyes: ...

I think the last thing you said about Morrissey not abandoning his mission is very true-- he's due his share of criticism, surely, but his consistency isn't just a matter of stubbornly staying the course, as it is for most. He's been the same because there is no "course", it's just him, emptying his diary. He's confined himself to provocative yet stable positions about himself and about the world. In short, some small slips aside, he made himself immune to hypocrisy. Who else can say that? We talk of Bono-- and I'm one who isn't blind to the good he does-- and in him you see the risks in attempting to go about change in the spirit of the Sixties, namely, that for everyone who finds Bono inspiring there are probably two more who are angered by him and turned off to the very idea of activism in that form.

Two points, not necessarily in response to yours...

First, the Dylan comparison is probably unworkable to begin with because Dylan was much more popular than Morrissey. I don't claim to be an expert on Dylan or the Sixties but I'm pretty sure that ten years after Dylan's early records made a splash the landscape had changed significantly enough to measure his distinct influence. Ten years after "Hand In Glove" a lot had changed, but almost none of it was influenced by The Smiths. Not to say you couldn't find bands who liked Morrissey and borrowed something from him, just that the really vital new forms of music were hip-hop and other electronic-based stuff. I'd have an easier time believing that the real Dylan of the Eighties was Madonna or Chuck D.

Second, one of the crippling problems of comparing Sixties altruism with Eighties self-absorption is that it ignores the nihilism of punk rock. Whatever one thinks of the music, certain strains of punk undeniably captured the primary anxiety of the times in the words "No future". The Sixties were possible because the future wasn't foreclosed. They could envision a future. They could dream their Utopias, however lame they might look to us now. As J. G. Ballard said, "The first casualty of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was the concept of the future".

Morrissey sang in a time (recently depicted in "Watchmen", following on the original book) haunted by the specter of nuclear annihilation. Where else was there to go but down inside oneself-- not least because the example set by the Sixties was one of a glorious few years of protest followed by passive assimilation into the system? It was in the air. Punk had articulated that feeling that it was all over, nothing was left. After that, you didn't necessarily need to abandon any hope of changing the world for the better, but you certainly had to find new tactics, and Morrissey did. And of course some of his tactics didn't look ahead to the future but involved an imaginative return to the past, which was wrongly taken as small-mindedness, political backwardness, and impotent escapism. In my view his way was superior: Morrissey's vision lingers on in the imagination, shallow protest or activist music does not.

P.S. Jello Biafra as Dylan-- yes, that gave me a chuckle. Wish that had been so!
 
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I think the last thing you said about Morrissey not abandoning his mission is very true-- he's due his share of criticism, surely, but his consistency isn't just a matter of stubbornly staying the course, as it is for most. He's been the same because there is no "course", it's just him, emptying his diary. He's confined himself to provocative yet stable positions about himself and about the world. In short, some small slips aside, he made himself immune to hypocrisy. Who else can say that?

Yes indeed.

First, the Dylan comparison is probably unworkable to begin with because Dylan was much more popular than Morrissey. I don't claim to be an expert on Dylan or the Sixties but I'm pretty sure that ten years after Dylan's early records made a splash the landscape had changed significantly enough to measure his distinct influence. Ten years after "Hand In Glove" a lot had changed, but almost none of it was influenced by The Smiths. Not to say you couldn't find bands who liked Morrissey and borrowed something from him, just that the really vital new forms of music were hip-hop and other electronic-based stuff. I'd have an easier time believing that the real Dylan of the Eighties was Madonna or Chuck D.

Yes, the Dylan comparison is unworkable, which was my objection to the article in the first place: apples and pomegranates. Dylan did change the musical landscape (even if the military-industrial complex was left unscarred). One way of gauging Morrissey's influence is to remove The Smiths from musical history (or to remove Morrissey from The Smiths). What a gaping hole there would be. Maybe The Smiths did not give birth to an entire musical genre, but they did perpetuate a certain artistic state-of-mind. Anytime a singer clearly enunciates and uses complex sentences or is unashamedly literary, I hear Morrissey. :D Moz is just one foot soldier (OK, maybe a general) in an ancient, glorious army of charmingly defiant poets, gender-bending performers and various willfully disruptive narcissists. His presence in our collective consciousness cannot be quantified.

The 80s did not have a Dylan.

Second, one of the crippling problems of comparing Sixties altruism with Eighties self-absorption is that it ignores the nihilism of punk rock. Whatever one thinks of the music, certain strains of punk undeniably captured the primary anxiety of the times in the words "No future". The Sixties were possible because the future wasn't foreclosed. They could envision a future. They could dream their Utopias, however lame they might look to us now. As J. G. Ballard said, "The first casualty of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was the concept of the future".

Morrissey sang in a time (recently depicted in "Watchmen", following on the original book) haunted by the specter of nuclear annihilation. Where else was there to go but down inside oneself-- not least because the example set by the Sixties was one of a glorious few years of protest followed by passive assimilation into the system? It was in the air. Punk had articulated that feeling that it was all over, nothing was left. After that, you didn't necessarily need to abandon any hope of changing the world for the better, but you certainly had to find new tactics, and Morrissey did. And of course some of his tactics didn't look ahead to the future but involved an imaginative return to the past, which was wrongly taken as small-mindedness, political backwardness, and impotent escapism. In my view his way was superior: Morrissey's vision lingers on in the imagination, shallow protest or activist music does not.

:clap:
 
I like the article very much but the Dylan comparison is pointless to me. For it to work we would have to agree on who and what Dylan is and represents, and I can't see that happening. It's a never-ending discussion of it's own.
 
I like the article very much but the Dylan comparison is pointless to me. For it to work we would have to agree on who and what Dylan is and represents, and I can't see that happening. It's a never-ending discussion of it's own.
yep, kind of like
ouroboros.jpg

:rolleyes: still it was cool worm mentioned the Watchmen :o
i can remember reading it while listening to The Smiths :thumb:
 
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