Morrissey, at his peak or past his prime?

[MozIsGod]

Years of Refusal whilst not, perhaps his finest moment has some simply wonderful songs on it.

My biggest problem with Years of Refusal is its mediocre lyrics. There's no interesting word play, nothing grabs you. Yes, everything comes across and you get the point -- but it's BORING. I listened to Ringleader the other day and it's got some "dull" lyrical moments but for the most part everything is much more interesting in comparison with Refusal.

I think he may have rushed the content on Refusal and had little inspiration. Or, he has become too Americanized -- a claim which is perfectly plausible with his now American band. His recent lyrics seem a bit on the flat side of things as well. It seems like Morrissey's been removed of his "Englishness" which helped make him what he was -- a clever, witty, and above all an interesting lyricist. Now, his lyrics are simply there. This is really sad, and I'm an American.

 

[Bluebirds]

Morrissey's ascension to ranks of the exiled National Treasure batchelor types has seen him rest on his laurels.

There are undoubtedly some absolute gems since 2004, but as pointed out he does continue to release a lot of his better tracks as B-sides. The lyrical content where killer lines occurred every other song or even 'stanza' has dwindled to every 4 or 5 songs at best.

Morrissey delivers when going through personal turmoil. Like all true influential artists. Those times have been scarce but things are looking up in that respect. He also seems to demonstrate increasingly conservative (small c) character traits and an increasingly cosseted lifestyle. As we all would at 52, unless you're Charlie Sheen

 

[Thesmithsmorrissey]

some of you put way too much thought into this shit.

It's like this: There is Morrissey solo and the Smiths, and then there is everything else somewhere far in the background

When it comes to singers, THERE IS ONLY HIS MOZNESS

When it comes to guitarists, THERE IS ONLY HIS MARRNESS

When it comes to bands, THERE IS ONLY THE SMITHS

this is the gospel, and it's really as simple as this.

 

[CrookedLittleVein]

At his peak? Past his prime? Irrelevant. He was,and continues to be,Morrissey. You really don't get it, do you?

 

[¡Viva Morrissey!]

at his peak? Past his prime? Irrelevant. He was,and continues to be,morrissey. You really don't get it, do you?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

*like*

 

[Peterb]

At his peak? Past his prime? Irrelevant. He was,and continues to be,Morrissey. You really don't get it, do you?

No, I don't. Can you explain?

 

[Oh my god. it's Robby!]

Yeah, the peaks and valleys thing and right now he is in a very deep valley, but I honestly believe he has at least one great album left in him!

 

[Peterb]

I haven't read every response in this thread but there seems to be a general misconception that Morrissey is a songwriter. So, where once he wrote something as subtle, beautiful and poignant as I Know It's Over, he now writes the clumsy, tuneless bluster of All You Need is Me.
A quick point of clarification - MORRISSEY HAS NEVER WRITTEN A SONG IN HIS ENTIRE LIFE! He is not, and has never been, a solo act in any meaningful sense of the word. He went from having Johnny Marr write songs and play the guitars to Stephen Street, then to Mark Nevin, Alain Whyte etc. Post-Smiths he's presented himself as a solo act but he could hardly be less solo.
He is a lyricist. The reason I Know Its Over, Maudlin Street, Well I Wonder, Will Never Marry, I Won't Share You, Please Please Please etc are things of absolute beauty are because Stephen Street and Johnny Marr wrote absolutely beautiful pieces of music.
Unlike many others round here, I'm not a Jesse basher, but he never writes musical compositions which could be considered beautiful or understated.
Marr and Street could easily come along tomorrow and hand Morrissey another gorgeous twinkling gem of a composition, Morrissey adds a few lyrics, and we have another beautiful song on our hands.
If we're gonna discuss the alleged decline of Morrissey, it only really makes more sense to focus on the words which are his responsibility, and his alone.
Although Morrissey has some say in the way the music is presented, it's certainly not a strength of his. His musical judgement is somewhere between poor and dire hence his recent announcement that the plodding mediocrity of That's How People Grow Up is one of the songs he's most proud of, and ludicrous musical decisions in the past such as releasing Dagenham Dave (officially his worst ever single) but hiding the genius of Nobody Loves Up on its b-side, releasing a bog-standard album track (Glamourous Glue) as the lead-single to his compilation album of last year, putting out Roy's Keen as a single, only to realise 10 years later the song shouldn't have even been released at all.
Anyway, err, what was I saying. Oh yes! It's the lyrics that he's responsible for and I'd argue that from Quarry onwards there's been a real drop in quality. We still get great lyrics and great songs from time to time, and I'm really pleased he's still writing new stuff, but they're the exception rather than the rule these days.

Hi Maurice E, You've written on this before and whilst I can see why you come to this conclusion, I do have a problem with it. Ofcourse he is a lyricist but I find it hard to believe that this is where his involvement ends.
Firstly, there is a melodic, (what can I call it?) signature, that runs through his material, right from the Smiths up to his latest stuff. Mr Reynolds calls it "single golden thread that runs through all his works."
Secondly, Morrissey, regardless of who he works with produces wonderful songs. His collaborators do not appear to acheive much without him.
I don't know much about his songwriting process but I understand that the material is sent back and forth between Moz and his co writers and I would imagine that during this his input is as much musical as it is lyrical.

 

[Amy]

I haven't read every response in this thread but there seems to be a general misconception that Morrissey is a songwriter. So, where once he wrote something as subtle, beautiful and poignant as I Know It's Over, he now writes the clumsy, tuneless bluster of All You Need is Me.
A quick point of clarification - MORRISSEY HAS NEVER WRITTEN A SONG IN HIS ENTIRE LIFE! He is not, and has never been, a solo act in any meaningful sense of the word. He went from having Johnny Marr write songs and play the guitars to Stephen Street, then to Mark Nevin, Alain Whyte etc. Post-Smiths he's presented himself as a solo act but he could hardly be less solo.
He is a lyricist. The reason I Know Its Over, Maudlin Street, Well I Wonder, Will Never Marry, I Won't Share You, Please Please Please etc are things of absolute beauty are because Stephen Street and Johnny Marr wrote absolutely beautiful pieces of music.
Unlike many others round here, I'm not a Jesse basher, but he never writes musical compositions which could be considered beautiful or understated.
Marr and Street could easily come along tomorrow and hand Morrissey another gorgeous twinkling gem of a composition, Morrissey adds a few lyrics, and we have another beautiful song on our hands.
If we're gonna discuss the alleged decline of Morrissey, it only really makes more sense to focus on the words which are his responsibility, and his alone.
Although Morrissey has some say in the way the music is presented, it's certainly not a strength of his. His musical judgement is somewhere between poor and dire hence his recent announcement that the plodding mediocrity of That's How People Grow Up is one of the songs he's most proud of, and ludicrous musical decisions in the past such as releasing Dagenham Dave (officially his worst ever single) but hiding the genius of Nobody Loves Up on its b-side, releasing a bog-standard album track (Glamourous Glue) as the lead-single to his compilation album of last year, putting out Roy's Keen as a single, only to realise 10 years later the song shouldn't have even been released at all.
Anyway, err, what was I saying. Oh yes! It's the lyrics that he's responsible for and I'd argue that from Quarry onwards there's been a real drop in quality. We still get great lyrics and great songs from time to time, and I'm really pleased he's still writing new stuff, but they're the exception rather than the rule these days.

I think you're right about the strength of the musical compositions declining - but during The Smiths, Morrissey used to send back & refuse to write words for the weaker material (Money Changes Everything, Oscillate Wildly, The Draize Train etc). If he thinks songs like "People are the Same Everywhere" and "The Kid's A Looker" are the cream of the crop when he's got multiple songwriters on the go, I dread to think how bad their rejected material must have been!

 

[Amy]

Hi Maurice E, You've written on this before and whilst I can see why you come to this conclusion, I do have a problem with it. Ofcourse he is a lyricist but I find it hard to believe that this is where his involvement ends.
Firstly, there is a melodic, (what can I call it?) signature, that runs through his material, right from the Smiths up to his latest stuff. Mr Reynolds calls it "single golden thread that runs through all his works."
Secondly, Morrissey, regardless of who he works with produces wonderful songs. His collaborators do not appear to acheive much without him.
I don't know much about his songwriting process but I understand that the material is sent back and forth between Moz and his co writers and I would imagine that during this his input is as much musical as it is lyrical.

He has a talent for finding/creating a vocal hook which can lift even the most feeble of songs out of the gutter, but ultimately - if he's given a plodding, thrashing mess as the foundation to work with... he's just polishing the turd. A good example of his musical input is Irish Blood, English Heart - he turned a meandering "Johnny Panic" demo into the highest charting single of his career.

 

[Peterb]

He has a talent for finding/creating a vocal hook which can lift even the most feeble of songs out of the gutter, but ultimately - if he's given a plodding, thrashing mess as the foundation to work with... he's just polishing the turd. A good example of his musical input is Irish Blood, English Heart - he turned a meandering "Johnny Panic" demo into the highest charting single of his career.

Hi Amy, In my opinion, that's quite a talent and makes him more than just a lyricist and undermines the statement "MORRISSEY HAS NEVER WRITTEN A SONG IN HIS ENTIRE LIFE!". If you are correct he has clearly co-written his songs.
(By the way I checked out Trouble Loves Me and you're right, it's wonderful.)

 

[Thesmithsmorrissey]

also...

Enough with the constant bitching that YATQ, ROTT and YOR are abysmal albums

have some of you ever heard Kill Uncle, Southpaw Grammar or Maladjusted?

you honestly think those albums are better than his last three?

Methinks a hurricane named Reality Check needs to go up and down the coastline a few times

 

[Peterb]

also...

Enough with the constant bitching that YATQ, ROTT and YOR are abysmal albums

have some of you ever heard Kill Uncle, Southpaw Grammar or Maladjusted?

you honestly think those albums are better than his last three?

Methinks a hurricane named Reality Check needs to go up and down the coastline a few times

Hi Thesmithsmorriseey, I agree. I think the last 3 albums and the 3 earlier LPs you list are all fine albums (with the possible exception of Kill Uncle although it does have 'end of the family line', 'mute witness, and 'theres a place...' which are great!).
I think I know where Amy is coming from though. Morrissey is not writing the same songs he once did and for me that's as it should be. As a serious artist, his output changes and develops. I guess Amy likes what he used to do but not what he is doing at the moment. Me, I love it all.

 

[Thesmithsmorrissey]

oh, don't get me wrong..

Kill Uncle, Southpaw and Maladjusted are still Morrissey albums, which makes them better than 99% of what else is out there

but I think his last three records were some of his most spirited and empassioned albums to date, and that's more than enough to qualify them as Morrissey solo classics.

 

[Peterb]

oh, don't get me wrong..

Kill Uncle, Southpaw and Maladjusted are still Morrissey albums, which makes them better than 99% of what else is out there

but I think his last three records were some of his most spirited and empassioned albums to date, and that's more than enough to qualify them as Morrissey solo classics.

I think the correct forum parlance is 'This!'

 

[Orson Swells]

oh, don't get me wrong..

Kill Uncle, Southpaw and Maladjusted are still Morrissey albums, which makes them better than 99% of what else is out there

but I think his last three records were some of his most spirited and empassioned albums to date, and that's more than enough to qualify them as Morrissey solo classics.

This is my feeling. I've followed Morrissey since the mid-80s and most of his albums are only viewed as classics in retrospect. Mostly, whatever work he is doing at the time is viewed as not as good as what has gone before. The only time I felt this to be true was in the Kill Uncle era - but he quickly snapped out of it. The last three comeback albums are superior to Southpaw and Maladjusted for me.

 

[Maurice E]

This is my feeling. I've followed Morrissey since the mid-80s and most of his albums are only viewed as classics in retrospect.

Not strictly true, Orson. When Kill Uncle came out it received very lukewarm reviews (6s and 7s out of 10). The next year when Your Arsenal came out it got universally great reviews (hailed as his best since the Smiths), and then, in 94, Vauxhall got even better reviews. Conversely, Southpaw took a critical hammering in 95 (and rightly so in my opinion). It's painful for us Morrissey fans to admit but the music critics are usually pretty fair when it comes to reviewing his albums.

 

[Orson Swells]

Not strictly true, Orson. When Kill Uncle came out it received very lukewarm reviews (6s and 7s out of 10). The next year when Your Arsenal came out it got universally great reviews (hailed as his best since the Smiths), and then, in 94, Vauxhall got even better reviews. Conversely, Southpaw took a critical hammering in 95 (and rightly so in my opinion). It's painful for us Morrissey fans to admit but the music critics are usually pretty fair when it comes to reviewing his albums.

I did say mostly. Although I was more talking about the fan response to them. This was pre-Internet, of course, but I recall most Smiths fans I knew saying Viva Hate wasn't as a good as the Smiths, slating the Bona Drag singles, more or less crucifying Kill Uncle. Things did pick up with Your Arsenal. Vauxhall got a great response. Then everything dipped again...

 

[Maurice E]

I did say mostly. Although I was more talking about the fan response to them. This was pre-Internet, of course, but I recall most Smiths fans I knew saying Viva Hate wasn't as a good as the Smiths, slating the Bona Drag singles, more or less crucifying Kill Uncle. Things did pick up with Your Arsenal. Vauxhall got a great response. Then everything dipped again...

Oh ok - fair enough. I only became a fan in 89 so wasn't around to see what the reactions were like before then. I do remember the post-LOTFIP Bona Drag singles getting a lot of stick individually (especially Ouija Board) but I think the album itself was pretty well received.

 

[Oh my god. it's Robby!]

so let me get this straight? the battle now is
YATQ, ROTT and YOR
vs
Kill Uncle, Southpaw Grammar & Maladjusted

-for me this is a draw, because YATQ is my fave album and "Life is a Pigsty" is one of the gr8est songs ever, period
however, I have played those older 3 albums far more, especially KU...