Morrissey’s view on gender identity

[gashonthenail]

I, for one, am sick of the topic. We should just leave people alone with whatever gender they want to gravitate toward.

On this similar topic, from all the interviews I've watched and read, he seems to be sick of the question about what "side" he's on. I think he's simply bisexual. Reading his Autobiography made me realize that. He's loved men, he's loved women... So.. bisexual.

Now then, that is cleared up, so when can this stop being a question/topic of interest?

Not sure what sexual attraction has to do with this topic?
We would all agree that people can be whatever gender they want. Gender isn't real - it's an abstract concept. But that doesn't change the fact that we find ourselves in sexed bodies. Sex is real. And sex matters. It matters for women who need refuge from violence and sexual assault. It matters for vulnerable women who need a bed in a mental health facility. It matters for female prisoners.

 

[Ashley_TakeABow]

Not sure what sexual attraction has to do with this topic?
We would all agree that people can be whatever gender they want. Gender isn't real - it's an abstract concept. But that doesn't change the fact that we find ourselves in sexed bodies. Sex is real. And sex matters. It matters for women who need refuge from violence and sexual assault. It matters for vulnerable women who need a bed in a mental health facility. It matters for female prisoners.

On this similar topic

Similar, but not the same. I feel ya, but I haven't got the energy to argue about this topic anymore.

 

[Lionel Cliffhanger]

I would be genuinely grateful if anyone supporting gender self ID etc to be able ti explain how self ID does not impact on women’s rights given the below…

 

[gashonthenail]

Some good news on this topic for a change. But the fact that this poor woman was sacked from her job for simply posting views on Facebook is shocking. How many more are there like this woman who have lost their job? In social work, health care, and academia?

RACHEL MEADE V WESTMINSTER CITY COUNCIL AND SOCIAL WORK ENGLAND - Woman's Place UK

RACHEL MEADE V WESTMINSTER CITY COUNCIL AND SOCIAL WORK ENGLAND. This is a significant win for Rachel Meade and women's rights.

womansplaceuk.org

 

[Malarkey]

I would be genuinely grateful if anyone supporting gender self ID etc to be able ti explain how self ID does not impact on women’s rights given the below…

It's been scrapped & blocked in the UK but technically the only difference it made was the person didn't need a diagnosis from a doctor to get a gender recognition certificate.

The certificates have been issued since 2004.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Some good news on this topic for a change. But the fact that this poor woman was sacked from her job for simply posting views on Facebook is shocking. How many more are there like this woman who have lost their job? In social work, health care, and academia?

RACHEL MEADE V WESTMINSTER CITY COUNCIL AND SOCIAL WORK ENGLAND - Woman's Place UK

RACHEL MEADE V WESTMINSTER CITY COUNCIL AND SOCIAL WORK ENGLAND. This is a significant win for Rachel Meade and women's rights.

womansplaceuk.org

I’m sure there’s plenty of good news out there that the media deems not ‘newsworthy’ to report. Such as incidents where trans women use female facilities without any problem to anyone.

 

[JM🇬🇧]

I’m sure there’s plenty of good news out there that the media deems not ‘newsworthy’ to report. Such as incidents where trans women use female facilities without any problem to anyone.

I know, right?
Like, they don’t tell us about all the wars that AREN’T happening! I wasn’t murdered today and nobody reported that in the news.

 

[gashonthenail]

It's been scrapped & blocked in the UK but technically the only difference it made was the person didn't need a diagnosis from a doctor to get a gender recognition certificate.

The certificates have been issued since 2004.

You did not answer the question. It's clearly a topic that you do not understand and are out of your depth in.

A system of gender self-identification would put women at risk

It would threaten single-sex spaces and female political autonomy, writes Kristina Harrison, a political campaigner

www.economist.com

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

I know, right?
Like, they don’t tell us about all the wars that AREN’T happening! I wasn’t murdered today and nobody reported that in the news.

you’re funny. No need to be aggressive, it’s quite rightly a touchy subject. I’m simply saying that there is little balance in the media or even in this thread concerning this issue.

 

[gashonthenail]

I’m sure there’s plenty of good news out there that the media deems not ‘newsworthy’ to report. Such as incidents where trans women use female facilities without any problem to anyone.

And how many women feel uncomfortable seeing a man in what is supposed to be a female-only space but keep their mouth shut and say nothing?

 

[JM🇬🇧]

you’re funny. No need to be aggressive, it’s quite rightly a touchy subject. I’m simply saying that there is little balance in the media or even in this thread concerning this issue.

I agree where you are coming from, you cannot get a good grasp of reality from statistics or reading the newspapers.
No aggression meant, most of what I say is tongue in cheek and not meant to offend.

Peace

 

[Malarkey]

You did not answer the question. It's clearly a topic that you do not understand and are out of your depth in.

A system of gender self-identification would put women at risk

It would threaten single-sex spaces and female political autonomy, writes Kristina Harrison, a political campaigner

www.economist.com

Bitch, I have read all that. It's alarmist & largely driven by online keyboard warriors.

There are always issues with new legislation - when the problems actually arise they get amended. It's happened with the gay age of consent, gay marriage etc etc.

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

Bitch, I have read all that.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

And how many women feel uncomfortable seeing a man in what is supposed to be a female-only space but keep their mouth shut and say nothing?

I agree it’s complicated, regarding appearances. And I guess shouldn’t be allowed. It’s simply unfortunate and extremely troubling that some people are using the guise of being transgender for nefarious means.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

I agree where you are coming from, you cannot get a good grasp of reality from statistics or reading the newspapers.
No aggression meant, most of what I say is tongue in cheek and not meant to offend.

Peace

Thanks. I don’t mean to come off as devils advocate here. It’s just that this world is full of all sorts, and everyone’s needs need to be considered. I’m not condoning violence at all.

‘There is a better world. Well, there must be …’

 

[goinghome]

Thanks. I don’t mean to come off as devils advocate here. It’s just that this world is full of all sorts, and everyone’s needs need to be considered. I’m not condoning violence at all.

‘There is a better world. Well, there must be …’

The gender i.d. wars in the US are hotting up even more, and where trans gains are concerned, there's a risk of throwing the baby out with the bathwater - https://www.damemagazine.com/2023/08/14/the-gop-has-a-master-plan-to-criminalize-being-trans/

 

[goinghome]

Some gender diversity has always been with us

The Trans History You Weren’t Taught in Schools

Often erased from history, scholars are now realizing that transgender and nonbinary people have existed in most human societies across time.

www.yesmagazine.org

 

[goinghome]

Thanks. I don’t mean to come off as devils advocate here. It’s just that this world is full of all sorts, and everyone’s needs need to be considered. I’m not condoning violence at all.

‘There is a better world. Well, there must be …’

Hi Zoom, I'm listening to one of revered Judith Butler's recent interviews about gender issues, and she pleads for inclusivity too.



At the same time, many earlier societies spent a inordinate amount of energy policing gender and relationships. Why did they think they needed to do that? What would be lost by individuals indulging in dreams?

 

[gashonthenail]

Hi Zoom, I'm listening to one of revered Judith Butler's recent interviews about gender issues, and she pleads for inclusivity too.



At the same time, many earlier societies spent a inordinate amount of energy policing gender and relationships. Why did they think they needed to do that? What would be lost by individuals indulging in dreams?

God, Judith Butler is dumb. But I suppose she demonstrates how dumb you got to be these days to move in the world of academia.
Safeguarding is discrimination. Society should discriminate against a male rapist wanting to go to a female prison. A women's refuge should discriminate against a man wanting to enter that space. It ain't rocket science. But clearly it is to Judith Butler.

 

[gashonthenail]

The independent review conducted by Hilary Cass of transgender care in England have published their final report. The findings are really disturbing for anyone who cares about the bodily integrity of our children.

• An appraisal of international guidelines for care and treatment of children and young people with gender incongruence found that no single guideline could be applied in its entirety to the NHS in England.
• While a considerable amount of research has been published in this field, systematic evidence reviews demonstrated the poor quality of the published studies, meaning there is not a reliable evidence base upon which to make clinical decisions, or for children and their families to make informed choices.
• The strengths and weaknesses of the evidence base on the care of children and young people are often misrepresented and overstated, both in scientific publications and social debate.
• The controversy surrounding the use of medical treatments has taken focus away from what the individualised care and treatment is intended to achieve for individuals seeking support from NHS gender services.
• The rationale for early puberty suppression remains unclear, with weak evidence regarding the impact on gender dysphoria, mental or psychosocial health. The effect on cognitive and psychosexual development remains unknown.
• The use of masculinising / feminising hormones in those under the age of 18 also presents many unknowns, despite their longstanding use in the adult transgender population. The lack of long-term follow-up data on those commencing treatment at an earlier age means we have inadequate information about the range of outcomes for this group.
• Clinicians are unable to determine with any certainty which children and young people will go on to have an enduring trans identity.
• For most young people, a medical pathway will not be the best way to manage their gender-related distress. For those young people for whom a medical pathway is clinically indicated, it is not enough to provide this without also addressing wider mental health and/or psychosocially challenging problems.
• Innovation is important if medicine is to move forward, but there must be a proportionate level of monitoring, oversight and regulation that does not stifle progress, while preventing creep of unproven approaches into clinical practice. Innovation must draw from and contribute to the evidence base.

Final Report – Cass Review

cass.independent-review.uk

Basically we have been medicating children based on a 'fad'. Future generations will look back on what we have done and condemn us for child abuse.