Meat or veg...that is the question.

[The Seeker of Good Songs]

I enjoy reading the ongoing discussions of posters about Vegetarianism and Meat eating.

Without a lot of "soap=boxing" what is your position on the topic and why.

Why should I be a veg or why not?

What's wrong with killing animals for food?

Why is pulling a carrot out of the ground, or plucking an apple from a tree ok?

 

[dazzak]

> Why should I be a veg or why not?

No being should have to suffer unnecessarily.

> What's wrong with killing animals for food?

See answer 1

> Why is pulling a carrot out of the ground, or plucking an apple from a
> tree ok?

Because carrots and apples do not feel pain.

 

[The Seeker of Good Songs]

But other animals kill each other, that is the natural order, survival of the fittest, etc, etc.

Many people say that humans are just another species of animal, so if a lion may kill a gazelle, why shouldn't a man kill a chicken, cow, pig, etc?

 

[Please]

> But other animals kill each other, that is the natural order, survival of
> the fittest, etc, etc.

> Many people say that humans are just another species of animal, so if a
> lion may kill a gazelle, why shouldn't a man kill a chicken, cow, pig,
> etc?
but we don't need to kill other animals to survive

 

[darKesT staR]

VeGiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii.......

My postioN is such... to take another liVing creaTures liFe is morally wrong, be it aNimal, bird, or huMan... You don't need to eat meaT to survive so why botheR?

When I waS a child I lived righT next to an abattoir and I wILL NEVER forget the smeLL and steNch from the dead carcasses of beautiul lambs and coWs.. Or the looK in their eyeS as they were hearded through the iron gaTes and ushered into the eXterminatioN chambeR and onto their untiMely deaths.. You could teLL they knew eXactly what was going to haPPen to them and where they were going... Sheer teRRor, feaR and paNick prevaiLed as they meT their untimelY DEATHS! ! ! !

I belieVe if the British publiC were beTTer infoRmed on how the meaT got to their plate, the proCess it taKes and how these poor animals are kiLLed more people would beCome vegetarians... But alas they do not, probably because there's too much moNey at staKe within the aforesaid MEAT industrY..

It's much healthier to be a veGi too, yoU neVer get obese and FAT, especiallY if you sticK to a well balanceD diet.. And at the end of the day youR conScience will be clear (Amen)... When I go to sleeP at night I knoW that no animals were harMed in sustaiNing meeeeeeeeeeeeeee and that means a LOT!

And just for the record no one can conVince YOU, iT's somethinG that coMes from within it just happeNs one day you waKe up see the light... the foG clears and hey PRESTO..

YOU'RE A VEGETARIAN!

p.s.. I did preach a bit soZ!

p.p.s.. Can I asK you this if you had to go and kill a lamb for your SundaY dinner could you actuallY go through with it and do it?

 

[apology for my name]

> Why should I be a veg or why not?
> What's wrong with killing animals for food?

I make no apology for what I eat. Why should anyone watch me or question me?
I am a quiet non-judgemental vegetarian, that's all.

 

[poprenaissance]

> But other animals kill each other, that is the natural order, survival of
> the fittest, etc, etc.

true - as a base result. we're (supposedly) above that as we have the ability to reason.

> Many people say that humans are just another species of animal, so if a
> lion may kill a gazelle, why shouldn't a man kill a chicken, cow, pig,
> etc?

that's a bit of semantics that doesn't really wash. it's akin to this argument from this total twat who thinks rape is an invention of women who regretted the sex:

"I'm just curious what basis the moral relativists have for condemning rape in the first place. If I deem the slaking of my desire for lust - or violence, if you prefer that theory of rape - to be an intrinsic good, who are you to condemn it? Certainly, one could argue that it is a violation of private property rights, but then, what of those moral relativists who reject the notion of private property. If all property is held in common, then how can a woman object if I decide to make use of that which belongs to me?"

 

[Tbevie]

Re: VeGiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii.......

> My postioN is such... to take another liVing creaTures liFe is morally
> wrong, be it aNimal, bird, or huMan... You don't need to eat meaT to
> survive so why botheR?

> When I waS a child I lived righT next to an abattoir and I wILL NEVER
> forget the smeLL and steNch from the dead carcasses of beautiul lambs and
> coWs.. Or the looK in their eyeS as they were hearded through the iron
> gaTes and ushered into the eXterminatioN chambeR and onto their untiMely
> deaths.. You could teLL they knew eXactly what was going to haPPen to them
> and where they were going... Sheer teRRor, feaR and paNick prevaiLed as
> they meT their untimelY DEATHS! ! ! !

> I belieVe if the British publiC were beTTer infoRmed on how the meaT got
> to their plate, the proCess it taKes and how these poor animals are kiLLed
> more people would beCome vegetarians... But alas they do not, probably
> because there's too much moNey at staKe within the aforesaid MEAT
> industrY..

> It's much healthier to be a veGi too, yoU neVer get obese and FAT,
> especiallY if you sticK to a well balanceD diet.. And at the end of the
> day youR conScience will be clear (Amen)... When I go to sleeP at night I
> knoW that no animals were harMed in sustaiNing meeeeeeeeeeeeeee and that
> means a LOT!

> And just for the record no one can conVince YOU, iT's somethinG that coMes
> from within it just happeNs one day you waKe up see the light... the foG
> clears and hey PRESTO..

> YOU'RE A VEGETARIAN!

> p.s.. I did preach a bit soZ!

> p.p.s.. Can I asK you this if you had to go and kill a lamb for your
> SundaY dinner could you actuallY go through with it and do it?

I agree with everything you've just said.

I don’t necessarily think that all carnivores are heartless people. I really believe it's just a case of people not making that connection from what’s on their plate to those innocent animals they pass by in the field on their way to work every day. People don't want to be reminded. I think if and when you are willing to make that connection, that’s when you become a vegetarian.

 

[The Devil's Reject]

My 2 cents

> I enjoy reading the ongoing discussions of posters about Vegetarianism and
> Meat eating.

> Without a lot of "soap=boxing" what is your position on the
> topic and why.

> Why should I be a veg or why not?

> What's wrong with killing animals for food?

For myself, I am a speciesist and I care first and foremost about human beings. Chimpanzees, who have the thought and feeling of young human kids, should be treated accordingly, whereas a shrimp strikes me as akin to a motile vegetable.

I happily eat "lower" creatures, such as fish and birds. I personally don't care for eating pigs and the like. These lines are blurry, subjective, somewhat emotional, and are merely my own choice. It doesn't matter to me what others eat. If someone is eating a juicy steak at my table the only comment I'll make about it is, "How is it?" Or, perhaps, "Can I have a taste?"

I also advocate humane biomedical research that can lead towards cures for human diseases and so forth.

I don't think it's immoral to kill animals for food. To the contrary, it is natural for humans to be omnivores.

However, I do want all animals to be treated well while they're alive. Thus, I look down on cruel factory farming and advocate farms where animals have decent lives before they are killed, or hunting for food yourself if you have the stomach for it (I don't).

I don't consider it "wrong" to raise a cow or a chicken and then killing them for food because I am informed about the evolutionary history of such animals. There naturally evolved a symbiotic relationship between humans and certain animals, because it was a better deal for those species to be domesticated instead of being left for the weasels and other cruel predators that would otherwise be their fates. Many people who read a vegan poltical web site and think they know it all are generally silly people, and in my experience are generally city-slickers who have very little contact with the natural world beyond their concrete jungles.

I do think people should take the ethical treatment of animals seriously, but I consider People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals a laughable, hysterical, propagandistic, and pathetic organization along the lines of certain extremist pro-life/anti-abortion groups.

I don't care for people who are self-righteous about their diets, fantasizing that they are "better" people because of what they choose to eat. See my link the other day to that blogger's essay for more on that.

I don't believe the entirety of humanity will ever be vegetarian. I don't believe that's even possible. If it were possible, it would not mean people will have stopped killing animals, as millions of animals are killed to raise vegetarian foods as well.

I do think we can treat animals a whole lot better than we do.

Finally, I would destroy anyone who harmed a hair on my dog, Molly.

 

[Trouble loves me]

> What's wrong with killing animals for food?

Nothing per se; if i were a hunter gatherer who'd never contemplated any philosophical questions and lived a base life out in the woods, i'd be there setting traps for ickle wabbits, and throwing spears at Bambi, in order to maintain basic survival. However, if, living as i do, i make the choice to return to eating meat, i'm buying into a hideously barbaric, environmentally unsound industry. I'm also betraying my conscience, which has been shaped by contemporary education, in sympathising with another creatures pain as my own; it's basically anthropomorphism.
However, this perplexes me somewhat, that we in the so called 'developed' world can own pets and treat them sometimes better than we treat human beings, yet think nothing of slapping a piece of overly processed meat on our plates and consuming the flesh of an animal just as intelligent (perhaps more so) as little fido sat at our feet.
The sticking point, i find, is thinking of the vast quantities of people in this world who have no choice but to eat meat, or for whom, meat eating is a ritual part of their lives (e.g. those living in remote, tribal areas of the world) I've always thought that a greater sort of spiritual intelligence existed amongst those people living closer to nature; how can a veggie condemn them? But, of course, they're not participating in intensive farming, or breeding unnatural species for mass sale on supermarket shelves. And of course, out there, the animal becomes something to be respected for providing food ... it's simple survival.
But, folks like you and me have a choice, and live in a world surrounded by issues that tribal humans do not have to contemplate. You ought to go veggie for three reasons:
1) It's morally sound
2) It's environmentally sound
3) It's better for your health

> Why is pulling a carrot out of the ground, or plucking an apple from a
> tree ok?

Because they evolved to be tempting to animals so they'd eat the fruit and spread seeds to help that particular species of plant survive. There is no moral problem with eating fruit and veg, because (as someone pointed out) seeds don't feel pain. However, the environmental problems with eating fruit and veg are well known; the pesticides, quantities of water and land, and the fuel used in getting them to us are literally destroying the planet.
Also, we no longer do as bears do and shit in the woods. So effectively we no longer spread the seeds of plants as nature intended. However, what might be a better idea is saving your apple core and throwing that to the ground on your country walk, rather than squatting by the side of bush and being arrested for public indecency ... just a thought.
I'm sure we can continue to consume fruit and veg without a guilty conscience; just try and buy seasonal, local produce.

If you want to read a good book on the issues of vegetarianism, (and i've plugged this one before) 'The Pig Who Sang To The Moon' puts forth a very reasoned argument, avoids being too preachy and points out issues that many of us have probably never considered.

 

[chupachotas]