Johnny Marr interview: "And the problem with The Smiths was that the friendship broke down...."

I wonder what happened.

 

[Amy]

Re: Johnny Marr interview: "And the problem with The Smiths was that the friendship broke down...."

By "general consensus" you obviously mean the Usual Suspects on here (which doesn't amount to many people). There was Morrissey's perception and there was Marr's perception - and both were "right" because both believed they had legitimate grievances and that the band wasn't developing in the way each of them wanted it to - although by that time, each of their artistic ambitions were no longer shared by the other. But, as the partnership that created The Smiths, each of their ambitions and viewpoints were/are equally valid. To suggest that there is some kind of favoured objective consensus whereby one person's perception was somehow more valid than the other is nonsense, that's just schoolyard side-taking.

Not so, I was referring to contemporaries within the Smiths camp at the time. Practically everybody who was anywhere near The Smiths at that time vouched for Johnny's grievances and the abysmal way in which Morrissey treated managers, producers, PR people and staff that he thought were disposable, all the way through The Smiths and until the very end. If I were to list those people in order all I'd be here all night, and they - from Joe Moss to John Porter to Ken Friedman and a dozen in between - were not under any illusions as to why relationships within the band were beginning to break down. When it comes to the story of the Smiths split, Morrissey is in a minority of one; he deflects blame, he refuses to accept any personal responsibility, he blames anyone else and when all else fails, starts peddling conspiracy theories. That has been his default response for 3 decades.

- - - Updated - - -

Or she could be referring to accounts from Joe Moss, Grant Showbiz, Stephen Street, and others who worked closely with The Smiths which all suggest that mounting pressure on Marr due to Morrissey's difficult behavior and unwillingness to be managed lead to Marr's decision to abandon the band.

I agree that the demise of The Smiths is not as black and white as some people paint it, and Marr himself has admitted he could have handled matters more gracefully, but a consistent narrative has definitely developed from the accounts of numerous parties involved, and Morrissey's version of events deviates significantly from the others.

Said it perfectly, thankyou.

 

[Anonymous]

I've always suspected Morrissey & Marr are not as proud of Strangeways as they've let on in interviews. It's a good record, but certainly not their best. Perhaps they've felt a need to praise it as the best simply because it was the last? As someone very sad that they split, from this vantage point, I have a hard time imaging how they would have proceeded. As the 80's ended the music scene that embraced The Smiths was rapidly changing. Marr would have wanted to evolve with the times and Morrissey would have fought it. I could see them making one, maybe two more albums ... but beyond that ... I just don't see it. Their creative differences/tension was just too great to allow it.

Agree/disagree?

hey. i actually really like strangeways, with meat is murder being my fav, and i do think morrissey likes it the most (who knows for sure) but perhaps not the rest of the gang. they were at least finally wholeheartedly happy with the production. i think part of strangeways problem was that the best songs are at the back end where in the past a lot of them were in the front (relatively at least i think this trend holds. were all big fans here of all the songs etc). as to how they could have continued, it seems impossible as morrisseydoesnt compromise much and i do think marr just totally fed up and getting itchy as a player and musician. i also think he wasnt happy not being as talked about as morrissey though which isnt me judging him as it seems a natural feeling to have to me. so no, theyd have made i think one more album before johnny dove full into electronica with morrissey cutting viva hate. do you post on the suede forum

 

[Anonymous]

What a prima donna Johnny Marr is. The Smiths were a business relationship with real contracts. How many of us work in places where we can demand real friendships along with our little paychecks? Johnny Marr signed bad contracts. Then he breached them. Both of them. Now he blames the breakdown in friendships and claims he was destined to be in many bands. So, what kind of "friend" is easily persuaded to freeze out the lead singer? Johnny Marr. That's the kind of friend.

I wonder what happened.

 

[Anonymous]

I think Marr had enough of Morrissey's hissy fits. The story of him refusing to open the door and Johnny saying he was done comes to mind. Aren't they on speaking terms now, though?

Johnny said something to the effect that there's only so many times you can try to contact someone and they don't reply before you just say f*** it.

 

[Anonymous]

Johnny said something to the effect that there's only so many times you can try to contact someone and they don't reply before you just say f*** it.

Wow. I do have a feeling that Moz has done that to most people who were friends. Didn't Kristy Maccoll say that he would be infatuated with someone then drop them out of the blue?

 

[kissmyshadestoo]

Johnny said something to the effect that there's only so many times you can try to contact someone and they don't reply before you just say f*** it.

There is a new "Q" magazine out with U2 on the cover. Johnny has a 2 page interview in that and he says exactly that in it....

 

[Belligerent Ghoul]

just like Lennon & McCartney

 

[Anonymous]

Its odd that JM never mentioned why he left Morrissey to sort out the EMi trouble that he never replied to them about. Funny that.

The real problem was that the label were basically useless, the managers were amateurs, the press people were also used to dealing with "average" bands. They just could not cope with the brilliantly talented, artistic, perfectionist and very determined and special, Morrissey. The others just went along with it and enjoyed the ride and the experiences. Its a shame as they had to do everything and EVERYTHING on there own. I think they did a good job but they all suffered from problems associated
with working for a label like Rough Trade but also that meant that they had a lot of freedom too, in every area, which ultimately they would not have had at one of the major labels in 1983-6.


I mean, when you got a Smiths record, the sleeve, the card, the print, the typeset, the fonts, the colours, the design, the grove messages, the quality, the sound, the songs, the voice, the guitars. All had to be right. And they were. And we loved them for it. And this is Morrissey. That's why they were so good. Thankfully, he is a perfectionist, articulate,thoughful, talented and demanding. Some see that as being awkward, troublesome or stubborn - or all 3 ! - but there is nothing wrong in fighting your corner. Forever. Which he did then and he does now.

God bless em all but the Smiths are dead.

In my opinion, JM has only written one decent arrangement since 1986 and that is called, down on the corner.

There is a part of me that wishes that Morrissey could place some decent lyrics into the arrangement and turn it into the masterpiece that JM really needs. The music is very special but it has been ruined by poor vocals, poor lyrics and almost obscurity.

For me, that sums up JM's musical output since 1986 and it is very sad to have to put that down.

 

[Anonymous]

It's a harmless B side. It was hardly a sign of things to come. A little perspective goes a long way.

Actually he has a point and anyone following news and interviews about the split up in the following years always read that session was the death knell for Marr. He (Marr) cited it for years

 

[marred]

Re: Johnny Marr interview: "And the problem with The Smiths was that the friendship broke down...."

What a prima donna Johnny Marr is. The Smiths were a business relationship with real contracts. How many of us work in places where we can demand real friendships along with our little paychecks? Johnny Marr signed bad contracts. Then he breached them. Both of them. Now he blames the breakdown in friendships and claims he was destined to be in many bands. So, what kind of "friend" is easily persuaded to freeze out the lead singer? Johnny Marr. That's the kind of friend.

God I wish I knew who this anonymous was so I could tell them how full of shit they are.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually he has a point and anyone following news and interviews about the split up in the following years always read that session was the death knell for Marr. He (Marr) cited it for years

I know all about it but you don't leave a band because of a song. He didn't have a gun to his head while he twanged his strings.

 

[ACTON]

I've always suspected Morrissey & Marr are not as proud of Strangeways as they've let on in interviews. It's a good record, but certainly not their best. Perhaps they've felt a need to praise it as the best simply because it was the last? As someone very sad that they split, from this vantage point, I have a hard time imaging how they would have proceeded. As the 80's ended the music scene that embraced The Smiths was rapidly changing. Marr would have wanted to evolve with the times and Morrissey would have fought it. I could see them making one, maybe two more albums ... but beyond that ... I just don't see it. Their creative differences/tension was just too great to allow it.

Agree/disagree?

We could look at it logically and dispassionately:
(1) 'Strangeways' was not their best album by a long mile.
+
(2) Since The Smiths split Moz has gone on to create some real career highs: Viva Hate, Your Arsenal, Vauxhall, Quarry, World Peace. Not forgetting a lot of fantastic singles and b-sides that never made it onto an album (e.g. Jack The Ripper).
+
(3) Since The Smiths split Marr has gone on to create a few good songs with collaborators (notably 'slow emotion replay' with The The, and a few good Electronic songs). His band and solo records have been patchy at best, and his singing isn't to my taste.
=
Maybe it was for the best that the split happened. Nothing lasts forever and Moz fans haven't done too badly with the Moz solo albums that have graced our lives.

 

[Anonymous]

"The real problem was that the label were basically useless, the managers were amateurs, the press people were also used to dealing with "average" bands. They just could not cope with the brilliantly talented, artistic, perfectionist and very determined and special, Morrissey. The others just went along with it and enjoyed the ride and the experiences. Its a shame as they had to do everything and EVERYTHING on there own. I think they did a good job but they all suffered from problems associated
with working for a label like Rough Trade but also that meant that they had a lot of freedom too, in every area, which ultimately they would not have had at one of the major labels in 1983-6.


I mean, when you got a Smiths record, the sleeve, the card, the print, the typeset, the fonts, the colours, the design, the grove messages, the quality, the sound, the songs, the voice, the guitars. All had to be right. And they were. And we loved them for it. And this is Morrissey. That's why they were so good. Thankfully, he is a perfectionist, articulate,thoughful, talented and demanding. Some see that as being awkward, troublesome or stubborn - or all 3 ! - but there is nothing wrong in fighting your corner. Forever. Which he did then and he does now.

God bless em all but the Smiths are dead."




i sorta agree with this though i still really love strangeways. its has a directness that i appreciate and i think the lyrics are great. this is when moz turned outward from all that lonely pining introspection and i love that death of a disco dancer, girlfriend in a coma, i wont share you,a rush and a pull etc are all great. to me this is where they dropped indie and became pro's

 

[Anonymous]

went to see johnny marr on his latest tour. guess what? he showed up!!!!
its always nice to buy tickets for a show and not have them cancelled.
the band broke up b/c Morrissey was unreliable and did whatever he wanted.
that works solo but not as a band.
Johnny saved Morrissey from rotting away in Manchester.
Seems to me that Moz should have been a bit more grateful.

 

[Chickpea]

Hmmm. Strangeways and Meat Is Murder are my favorite Smiths albums. I think they went out on a very beautiful note, personally.

It does sound like a last album, though, and I can't even imagine what would have come next. I didn't hear the Smiths until after Morrissey had begun his solo career, though, so for me Strangeways servers as the perfect segue to Viva Hate.

It's a little like asking why a couple gets divorced. You can't ever really know, and it's rarely one reason or one person who can be blamed. Does it matter? I don't think it's strange that the Smiths ended when they did, taking every account of the events that left up to it into consideration.

 

[Anonymous]

The real problem was that the label were basically useless, the managers were amateurs, the press people were also used to dealing with "average" bands. They just could not cope with the brilliantly talented, artistic, perfectionist and very determined and special, Morrissey.

Yes Ms Dwyer, we know. Everybody is out of step except your Steven......... ;-)

 

[Devoted101]

I surmise (from various books and interviews) that the relationship broke down due to Morrissey ultimately treating Johnny in the exact same way he had treat many others before along the way. Cancelled television appearances (Wogan) and video shoots without bothering to even inform Johnny as if he weren't an equal partner and the final straw being Moz recruiting Joyce to do his bidding where once it would have been Johnny.

If you read Tony Fletcher's book, Johnny admits feeling isolated from the rest of the band during the last B-Side recording sessions held by Grant Showbiz. Basically, I think it got to the point where Johnny just thought f*** this - I created this band, wrote all the tunes along with producing and managing and now the drummer is telling me what I'm meant to be playing. You can kind of see his point to be fair.

i bet it is because Moz is always wrong, everything he personally chooses or influences is wrong. I bet it is because the Earth hasn't known any greater evil than Steven Patrick Morrissey and any, no EVERYthing negative in life and entertainment is because Morrissey was born to some black Irish bastards.

I'm glad there is a website devoted only to identifying Morrissey as the antichrist and highlighting all of his failures, ie. everything he does from the moment he goes to sleep to the moment he fails to die.

It is true Morrissey has added nothing to the world but whine and cheese. Real true artists, like Andy Rourke - the bass playing extraordinaire from James Franco's band "Daddy," has changed the world as we know it and someday will create World Peace when they change their name to Wyld Stallyns...

Generally I only post on AndyRourke-solo.com and MikeJoyce-solo.com and JohnnyMarr-solo.com but when I saw somehow there was a site created for the only purpose of pissing on that musical nobody, Morrissey, well I had to jump on board.

Luckily songs like Easy Money and

http://www.vice.com/read/watch-the-meta-music-video-by-james-francos-band-daddy-455

show us that there really are poets in the music industry, even if it is only 3 working class manc prods AND james franco, BUT not Morrissey, never morrissey.

hell, at least Mike and Andy never cancel a gig. Every Sunday, like clockwork, I see Mike with his white plastic 5 gallon buckets and Andy with his bass case open in Times Square.

I remember throwing a few coins at them right after i bought a book covering the poetry and artwork of johnny marr..


thank christ for this site, amen.

 

[Billtwasreallynowt]

i bet it is because Moz is always wrong, everything he personally chooses or influences is wrong. I bet it is because the Earth hasn't known any greater evil than Steven Patrick Morrissey and any, no EVERYthing negative in life and entertainment is because Morrissey was born to some black Irish bastards.

I'm glad there is a website devoted only to identifying Morrissey as the antichrist and highlighting all of his failures, ie. everything he does from the moment he goes to sleep to the moment he fails to die.

It is true Morrissey has added nothing to the world but whine and cheese. Real true artists, like Andy Rourke - the bass playing extraordinaire from James Franco's band "Daddy," has changed the world as we know it and someday will create World Peace when they change their name to Wyld Stallyns...

Generally I only post on AndyRourke-solo.com and MikeJoyce-solo.com and JohnnyMarr-solo.com but when I saw somehow there was a site created for the only purpose of pissing on that musical nobody, Morrissey, well I had to jump on board.

Luckily songs like Easy Money and

http://www.vice.com/read/watch-the-meta-music-video-by-james-francos-band-daddy-455

show us that there really are poets in the music industry, even if it is only 3 working class manc prods AND james franco, BUT not Morrissey, never morrissey.

hell, at least Mike and Andy never cancel a gig. Every Sunday, like clockwork, I see Mike with his white plastic 5 gallon buckets and Andy with his bass case open in Times Square.

I remember throwing a few coins at them right after i bought a book covering the poetry and artwork of johnny marr..


thank christ for this site, amen.

LMAO.
Top notch.

 

[Anonymous]

he was a fantastic bass player. theres no taking that away from him despite how people feel about him now. marr needs a good collaborator imo

 

[Anonymous]

Whatever broke -- and Biography makes a good case for Johnny being a c*** -- he was destined never to do anything nearly as good again. The other guy has somewhat eclipsed him.

 

[Billtwasreallynowt]

Whatever broke -- and Biography makes a good case for Johnny being a c*** -- he was destined never to do anything nearly as good again. The other guy has somewhat eclipsed him.

My love & I, we are boxing clever......
When love breaks down, the things you do, to stop the truth from hurting you.
When love breaks down, the lies we tell, they only serve, to fool ourselves.