Had the smiths made it to the 90s

[VivaGil]

I was thinking about this when I had strangeways here we come playing in the background. What do you think the logical progression would have been had the band entered the next decade. Personally I think they would broken up shortly after either way. But musically what could have happened

 

[Skylarker]

Re: Had the smiths made it to the 90s.

If they'd survived they'd have gone for a harder-edged sound, like all of their contemporaries did, and like Morrissey ended up doing solo, and like the general scene around them was doing. Crunchier guitars, less jingle/jangle...louder production. They actually were going in this direction before anybody else was.

 

[Orson Swells]

Re: Had the smiths made it to the 90s.

Well, in an interview a few years ago, Marr said the next Smiths album he had in mind at the time would have been Scott Walker-influenced.

 

[Skylarker]

Re: Had the smiths made it to the 90s.

Well, in an interview a few years ago, Marr said the next Smiths album he had in mind at the time would have been Scott Walker-influenced.

Would it have taken three years to achieve?

 

[Peterb]

Re: Had the smiths made it to the 90s.

I reckon that they had gone as far as they could. Further albums would have seen a significant decline in quality and thus their reputation. One of the great things about the Smiths is that they did not outstay their welcome.

 

[Amy]

Re: Had the smiths made it to the 90s.

I reckon that they had gone as far as they could. Further albums would have seen a significant decline in quality and thus their reputation. One of the great things about the Smiths is that they did not outstay their welcome.

Where do you get that from? Morrissey and Marr both think Strangeways is the best Smiths album - I think I'm inclined to agree. Nothing on that album (Death of a Disco Dancer aside) really indicates a decline in quality, does it? I think a fifth Smiths album would have been brilliant. Marr is just saying otherwise these days as a way to justify leaving the band when he did.

 

[Orson Swells]

Re: Had the smiths made it to the 90s.

Would it have taken three years to achieve?

Well, who knows - but maybe a little over two.

As Strangeways was released in late September 87, just over two years would see them enter the 90s - if that's the point you're making. Strangeways was recorded in March and released 6 months later (The Queen Is Dead, of course, took even longer to appear) and The Smiths continuing would have necessitated Marr taking a substantial break too (he has always stated this was his intention). So I think you'd be looking at a 1989 release date at the earliest to write, record and release any follow up LP, if not later. Even so, Marr's concept for the next album does give you a strong idea of the direction The Smith may have taken musically.

 

[Skylarker]

Re: Had the smiths made it to the 90s.

Well, who knows - but maybe a little over two.

As Strangeways was released in late September 87, just over two years would see them enter the 90s - if that's the point you're making. Strangeways was recorded in March and released 6 months later (The Queen Is Dead, of course, took even longer to appear) and The Smiths continuing would have necessitated Marr taking a substantial break too (he has always stated this was his intention). So I think you'd be looking at a 1989 release date at the earliest to write, record and release any follow up LP, if not later. Even so, Marr's concept for the next album does give you a strong idea of the direction The Smith may have taken musically.

Release dates are irrelevant; I don't chart a band's progression according to when their records come out, but instead when their records are created. Yeah The Queen Is Dead took awhile to come out, but that had nothing to do with the band's productivity or creative progression; it was record company bullshit. And they still had another LP's worth of new material within a year or so of its recording.

And look at post-Strangeways Morrissey...he was ready to plow right into the next album, even after Marr quit, and when The Smiths disbanded he still had a solo record out almost immediately...which is pretty profound.

Even if they'd done a Scott Walker phase, I am sure they would have gotten it out of their system by the turn of the decade. But, as you say, who knows.

 

[Amy]

Re: Had the smiths made it to the 90s.

.... The Smiths continuing would have necessitated Marr taking a substantial break too (he has always stated this was his intention). .

I've never understood that. Marr has always said that things would have been different if he'd had a break in '87, if Morrissey had let him have a holiday - but he did have a break, didn't he? He disappeared to LA in May '87 and then nobody heard a thing from him until he phoned up the NME in October to confirm the split. That's almost a six-month "holiday", and he can't have been that exhausted because he busied himself "in session" with Talking Heads, Bryan Ferry and Chrissie Hynde. I always thought that aspect of the split was enormously exaggerated and something of a red herring to distract the Press.

I think the next Smiths album could easily have been pushed out in '88 - judging by Viva Hate, Morrissey would have had all the lyrics written by Christmas and then they'd be waiting on Marr to come up with some new tunes. A man who can write "Please, Please...", "William.." and "How Soon is Now?" all in the same weekend doesn't need a full year to write an album.

 

[Orson Swells]

Re: Had the smiths made it to the 90s.

I think the next Smiths album could easily have been pushed out in '88 - judging by Viva Hate, Morrissey would have had all the lyrics written by Christmas and then they'd be waiting on Marr to come up with some new tunes. A man who can write "Please, Please...", "William.." and "How Soon is Now?" all in the same weekend doesn't need a full year to write an album.

I always took it as Marr needing a break from working with Morrissey! And a long one, as in, say, a year or so. The problem with the follow-up to Strangeways wouldn't have been Morrissey writing the lyrics fast enough (although arguably the burst of Viva Hate material was inspired by his (ill-)feelings after the split) but Marr writing the music.

I think they'd have reconvened Spring 88 at the very earliest, but my gut feeling is Marr would have wanted to take 1988 off entirely from working with the Smiths. So, if the band got back together early 1989, you'd really be looking at a late 89 release - and this album would effectively be the sound of the Smiths entering the 90s, probably still touring and promoting the LP in that decade.

Still, as we're talking about a parallel universe Smiths here, it's difficult to argue it one way or the other!

 

[Because]

Re: Had the smiths made it to the 90s.

I reckon it would have been pretty similar to Morrissey's solo career i.e. A few more rocky/acoustic albums then some slightly experimental stuff then a good break before returning to some of their most critically acclaimed stuff "back on form" "reaffirming themselves" etc.

 

[Peterb]

Re: Had the smiths made it to the 90s.

Where do you get that from? Morrissey and Marr both think Strangeways is the best Smiths album - I think I'm inclined to agree. Nothing on that album (Death of a Disco Dancer aside) really indicates a decline in quality, does it? I think a fifth Smiths album would have been brilliant. Marr is just saying otherwise these days as a way to justify leaving the band when he did.

You are inclined to agree. I am not. Is that OK with you?

 

[VivaGil]

Re: Had the smiths made it to the 90s.

I think it wouldn't have been jangle but certainly not anywhere near the abrasive guitar that is jesse tobias. that's coming from a guy that listens to a lot of metal. I was thinking if they would have given in to the american grunge sounds. Not completely but by 93 at least be somewhat affected by it. It's one thing that makes me wonder whether our boys would have made it very far into the decade.but I do agree that much like led zeppelin and the beatles, they did not overstay their welcome and that's just fine. I was even thinking that moz has been playing more smiths songs to practice for that possible reunion.

 

[Peterb]

Re: Had the smiths made it to the 90s.

I think it wouldn't have been jangle but certainly not anywhere near the abrasive guitar that is jesse tobias. that's coming from a guy that listens to a lot of metal. I was thinking if they would have given in to the american grunge sounds. Not completely but by 93 at least be somewhat affected by it. It's one thing that makes me wonder whether our boys would have made it very far into the decade.but I do agree that much like led zeppelin and the beatles, they did not overstay their welcome and that's just fine. I was even thinking that moz has been playing more smiths songs to practice for that possible reunion.

Hey VivaGil, I agree. You make the point much better than I did. The Smiths, for me defined the 80's sound. For them to go on they would have to change, and Strangeways is clearly signposting that change and for me it is not entirely successful. As it turned out, they split and Moz very effectively made that move into the 90's.

 

[VivaGil]

Re: Had the smiths made it to the 90s.

I would hate to live in a musical world lacking your arsenal and vauxhall. Now that I think about it. The smiths breaking up isn't the most goethite thing. Also, I don't feel strangeways was in any way lacking.

 

[Peterb]

Re: Had the smiths made it to the 90s.

I would hate to live in a musical world lacking your arsenal and vauxhall. Now that I think about it. The smiths breaking up isn't the most goethite thing. Also, I don't feel strangeways was in any way lacking.

Regarding Strangeways, fair enough, just my opinion but what does 'goethite' mean?

 

[Amy]

Re: Had the smiths made it to the 90s.

You are inclined to agree. I am not. Is that OK with you?

Do you think Strangeways was a bad album? Did the Smiths get progressively worse over the course of their career?

 

[Peterb]

Re: Had the smiths made it to the 90s.

Do you think Strangeways was a bad album? Did the Smiths get progressively worse over the course of their career?

No, not at all Amy. I just feel the material was weaker than on previous albums.
Look, there is no right or wrong here. If you think it was a great album and a portent of greater things to come then wonderful, and your view about the Smiths in the 90's is consistent. I disagree and thus my opinion.
I think, though, our disagreement goes deeper. I see Marr simply as the first of Morrisseys collaborators. I think he went as far as he could with Marr. Moving on was good for him as the excellence of his output afterwards attests. Nevertheless, whilst disagreeing, all respect to those who believe his best work was with the Smiths.

 

[VivaGil]

Re: Had the smiths made it to the 90s.

Regarding Strangeways, fair enough, just my opinion but what does 'goethite' mean?

My phone bizarrely auto corrected the word horrible to that. Why it's in my phones word bank escapes me.

 

[Peterb]

Re: Had the smiths made it to the 90s.

My phone bizarrely auto corrected the word horrible to that. Why it's in my phones word bank escapes me.

goethite is a perfectly cromulent word.