Do Morrissey's political/social views make it difficult to enjoy the music?

[theloveofyourlife]

Good art means pushing buttons and boundaries. It is not tailored for the masses. So if these issues are what motivate Mr. Moz these days, I can disagree with the views whilst appreciating the art that comes out.

The problem is that much of it is bad art. I may not have agreed with the views conveyed by tracks like 'Bengali' ect but at least they were expressed in a less obtuse way than; 'Stop reading the news'. There was often an ambiguity in the narration. You could never totally tell if Morrissey was playing a character or if they were actually his opinions.

The main issue modern political Moz is that's all too clear that he holds these beliefs and they're very rarely original or insightful. There isn't anything profound about 'World Peace', it's just a series of tired poorly expressed platitudes. In his older work the social commentary aspect was woven into the fabric of his songs. His disdain for the monarchy reverberates throughout 'The Queen Is Dead' and yet it never overtly states it. It's conveyed with a playful wit and is all the more powerful on account of that. Can you imagine if it he wrote a sequel to that now? It would just be filled with contemptuous slogans (and possibly a deranged child with an axe).

The tone of these modern songs is, more often than not, condescending and arrogant; 'ooohh ohhh you poor little fools', 'as the workers stay enslaved'. Perhaps those are tongue in cheek lines? But its so hard to tell these days because he does look down on people who hold different views to him and he does think he's on some higher plateau. Because the songs are so blunt and one-dimensional its difficult to enjoy them unless you happen to share his views.

I'm still going to buy his albums and I'm sure I'll like a lot of the tracks but its frustrating when you know what he's capable of.

 

[URBANUS]

He hates Trump and that's quite appropriate

I think he fears strong men like most gay men do.

 

[Vegan]

I think he fears strong men like most gay men do.

There is nothing strong about Trump.

 

[Anonymous]

The problem is that much of it is bad art. I may not have agreed with the views conveyed by tracks like 'Bengali' ect but at least they were expressed in a less obtuse way than; 'Stop reading the news'. There was often an ambiguity in the narration. You could never totally tell if Morrissey was playing a character or if they were actually his opinions.

The main issue modern political Moz is that's all too clear that he holds these beliefs and they're very rarely original or insightful. There isn't anything profound about 'World Peace', it's just a series of tired poorly expressed platitudes. In his older work the social commentary aspect was woven into the fabric of his songs. His disdain for the monarchy reverberates throughout 'The Queen Is Dead' and yet it never overtly states it. It's conveyed with a playful wit and is all the more powerful on account of that. Can you imagine if it he wrote a sequel to that now? It would just be filled with contemptuous slogans (and possibly a deranged child with an axe).

To quote Chekhov: "The role of the artist is to ask questions, not answer them". Too much of Morrissey's recent lyrics fall into the category of sloganeering. If you agree with whatever he's saying, then fine. But it's not good art that you can engage with on any meaningful level.

 

[URBANUS]

There is nothing strong about Trump.

He is a symbol of a strong man that made it and will not take it from anyone. Personally he might be weak as hell but I was merely pointing to what he signals to the world.

We all have or had one persona at work and one at home.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

..

The problem is that much of it is bad art. I may not have agreed with the views conveyed by tracks like 'Bengali' ect but at least they were expressed in a less obtuse way than; 'Stop reading the news'. There was often an ambiguity in the narration. You could never totally tell if Morrissey was playing a character or if they were actually his opinions.

The main issue modern political Moz is that's all too clear that he holds these beliefs and they're very rarely original or insightful. There isn't anything profound about 'World Peace', it's just a series of tired poorly expressed platitudes. In his older work the social commentary aspect was woven into the fabric of his songs. His disdain for the monarchy reverberates throughout 'The Queen Is Dead' and yet it never overtly states it. It's conveyed with a playful wit and is all the more powerful on account of that. Can you imagine if it he wrote a sequel to that now? It would just be filled with contemptuous slogans (and possibly a deranged child with an axe).

The tone of these modern songs is, more often than not, condescending and arrogant; 'ooohh ohhh you poor little fools', 'as the workers stay enslaved'. Perhaps those are tongue in cheek lines? But its so hard to tell these days because he does look down on people who hold different views to him and he does think he's on some higher plateau. Because the songs are so blunt and one-dimensional its difficult to enjoy them unless you happen to share his views.

I'm still going to buy his albums and I'm sure I'll like a lot of the tracks but its frustrating when you know what he's capable of.

'The problem is that much of it is bad art.'

beauty is in the eye of the beholder, or in this case, ear.

 

[Vegan]

He is a symbol of a strong man that made it and will not take it from anyone. Personally he might be weak as hell but I was merely pointing to what he signals to the world.

We all have or had one persona at work and one at home.

being an arrogant petulant manchild is the opposite of strength. He is a failure of human being. Everything that is wrong with my country wrapped up in one piece of shit. I am ashamed of America but we deserve this. The whole world is laughing at us.

 

[URBANUS]

being an arrogant petulant manchild is the opposite of strength. He is a failure of human being. Everything that is wrong with my country wrapped up in one piece of shit. I am ashamed of America but we deserve this. The whole world is laughing at us.

But me and Pernilla find his little mouth to be very cute indeed. I don't think the world is laughing cause the laughter got stuck in their throats.

You know his agenda changed after a famous power struggle at a round table and that changed everything. His opponents and fans are equally disappointed. I always knew things would remain as they were cause people place too much hope in leaders who in turn are a bit like drug bosses who have a lot of people on the payroll.

Every politician is a puppet with people running the show in the background. I actually believe he will not even last 4 years and that Pence will have to fill in until Oprah Winfrey becomes the first female american president in 2020.

There will be mac and cheese for everyone!

 

[Anonymous]

I recommend that you read both his Autobiography and List of the Lost.

Why guess when Morrissey has put everything in words?

List of the Lost sealed it for me, because it was so clearly written with a certain, highly prejudiced fan type in mind, who was then the only one who predictably proclaimed that they loved/enjoyed the book. From what is known about the new album so far he has stuck to that target group.

There is only one person, Morrissey the person and Morrissey the artist are not two different people. It is not that Morrissey sits down to write lyrics and suddenly becomes somebody else. Even his close friend James Maker said that Morrissey is in the lyrics. I used to think that Morrissey is writing stories with his songs that were not about him but very terrible people. I thus don't see how you can find that his lyrics are beautiful content wise. I felt that they were portraying pretty bad people right from the beginning, in a social commentary way, but then figured out that he was actually singing about himself and his fans who rightly claim that they find themselves in his lyrics. Obviously they aren't aware how terrible they are. Morrissey later adopted the idea that he is telling stories and told a story like List of the Lost, but even there didn't manage to diassociated himself from himself and instead filled quite some space to voice his own thinking as the narrator. Read both books, they are your direct avenue into his head.

Has it had an influence on whether I listen to his music? You bet it did. I watched and downloaded the Arte concert, and felt some sort of strange familiarity with what I was seeing, but from what I have become aware of about the new album now, it is time to delete the Arte concert, because I now feel no inclination to watch it again, now that I know that nothing has changed.

What changed during his wilderness years? Could be this forum that was started at second half of the 90s and him being influenced by his most vocal fans. Their posts scream of a very similar highly stereotyped stupidity and arrogance. They dump their thinking on you and don't question once they they might be wrong about the claims they make. When I was still using this forum, they came up with all sorts of claims that couldn't have been further removed from me as a living breathing person, but different to Morrissey, I wasn't bothered to counter their claims, because then I could have spent the whole day doing so and my time was too precious for that. Instead I saw what they wrote and what it says about them. Nothing good. I don't want to be friends or closely associated with that type. I kept using the forum however hoping for other, more worthwile people to register, which never happened. It is scary how much Morrissey thinks in their way. And they all think that they are wonderful people.

 

[Anaesthesine]

His views have always flirted with controversy but I think it's fair to say that he's become more outspoken about certain topics in recent years. Does anyone else find it really difficult at times to reconcile his beautiful lyrics with his, at times, deplorable public persona?

The post-Maladjusted years also saw a radical change in his writing style, to my ears at least. The literary allusions and playfully poetic language were largely replaced with a way more blunt approach. I feel like this must be somehow linked to an underlying change in Morrissey himself. Did anything major happen in his life during the 'wilderness' years? (I've not yet read his autobiography yet). It seems to me like he reemerged from that break as a totally different artist.

It's only natural for an artist to develop but this seemed quite sudden and veered in a counter-intuitive direction. There was so much more maturity, nuance and artistry in Vauxhall & I/Bona Drag/Viva Hate and even Maladjusted. I expected him to have something more profound to say than, 'Each time you vote you support the process' or 'Stop watching the news'. These cliched statements feel like such a step backwards for someone with his flair for language. I had always envisioned Morrissey becoming more refined with age. This is a man whose written songs like; 'Asleep', 'Late Night, Maudlin Street', 'Trouble Loves Me', 'I'm Changing My Plea'. And yet he never fully explored that more melodic style that suits his voice so well. Vauxhall is the closest he went to expanding on this and that subtlety is part of what makes it his most powerful and mature work.

How do you guys reconcile Morrissey the person from the Morrissey that lives in the music? Or is that not an issue for you? Also, is the change in his writing style well-acknowledged here or am I imagining it? It's my first visit to the forum so I'm not aware of the consensus here.

Spot-on observation, and very good question.

It's not so much Morrissey's political and social views (which often seem nebulous and confused) that make it difficult for me to listen to his music these days. It is his increasingly obvious mean, vindictive and pathologically petty nature. Recent years have brought out a level of sociopathic cruelty and obliviousness that completely undermines the great humanity in his best work.

And yes: he should have become more profound with age. The man began his public life with a wit and wisdom beyond his years. His "middle period" was indeed more mature and reflective. In his dotage, however, he has become everything that he once was not: shrill, pedantic and stridently uninteresting.

I have no idea what could be causing this, but I suspect the answer involves a prescription or two, plus the terrible wear and tear of being a public introvert.

Such a shame: he is the greatest singer I've ever heard and (for me at least) the greatest artist of his generation.

 

[Flibberty]

I think some people need to take a step into the real world...

Genuine right wing politicians, a thousand miles more extreme than the likes of Nigel Farage, are gaining in popularity in a large number of countries. Now do people really believe that many or all of the millions who support them must be racist or deplorable or any of the other words that are bandied around here?

People should actually see the genuine reasons why these vote shifts are happening rather than just burying their heads in the sand and throwing insults at anyone who holds a different political viewpoint from them.

 

[Uncleskinny]

Spot-on observation, and very good question.

It's not so much Morrissey's political and social views (which often seem nebulous and confused) that make it difficult for me to listen to his music these days. It is his increasingly obvious mean, vindictive and pathologically petty nature. Recent years have brought out a level of sociopathic cruelty and obliviousness that completely undermines the great humanity in his best work.

And yes: he should have become more profound with age. The man began his public life with a wit and wisdom beyond his years. His "middle period" was indeed more mature and reflective. In his dotage, however, he has become everything that he once was not: shrill, pedantic and stridently uninteresting.

I have no idea what could be causing this, but I suspect the answer involves a prescription or two, plus the terrible wear and tear of being a public introvert.

Such a shame: he is the greatest singer I've ever heard and (for me at least) the greatest artist of his generation.

Indeed. This was a horrific example - fat-shaming someone for effect.

https://true-to-you.net/morrissey_news_151020_02

 

[Uncleskinny]

I think some people need to take a step into the real world...

Genuine right wing politicians, a thousand miles more extreme than the likes of Nigel Farage, are gaining in popularity in a large number of countries. Now do people really believe that many or all of the millions who support them must be racist or deplorable or any of the other words that are bandied around here?

People should actually see the genuine reasons why these vote shifts are happening rather than just burying their heads in the sand and throwing insults at anyone who holds a different political viewpoint from them.

The answer is yes.

 

[Anaesthesine]

Indeed. This was a horrific example - fat-shaming someone for effect.

https://true-to-you.net/morrissey_news_151020_02

One of the few things that I still admire about Morrissey is his unstinting support of animal rights. The fact that he often undercuts his position with childish attacks is a source of much frustration.

Ah well: well always have (everything before) Paris.

 

[Pokey]

They don't make it difficult at all. Some artists it does, but I think with Morrissey because my love of his music literally goes back to where I was 3 or 4 and is so ingrained, its so about the music to me. Even his old interviews and such, the way he spoke I sort of saw them as more like art and entertainment, the way he'd craft answers and such.

Now days, a lot of what he says does make me roll my eyes, I'm also never going to stop eating meat and so all his PETA stuff and views on that don't really gel with me. But I just don't care? If it effects you to the point where you're unable to enjoy the music (as apparently it does for a lot of people), that's cool. But then why torture yourself and hang around getting angry over it? Move on. I had to do that with one of my other favourite bands, Live. As people, they let me down so much and it has really effected the way I hear their music now. It sucks but I had to just move on. Its almost like kicking a habit - you are used to checking the message boards, you're used to following the news etc... you just cut yourself off. To another extent, my favourite guitarist of all time and probably the greatest musician I have ever seen, Bob Brozman. I absolutely cannot listen to his music anymore after what came out about him after his suicide. That's a more extreme example, granted. But ultimately, if something is grating on you SO much then why continue to let it?

With a lot of Morrissey's stuff its more like that crazy old Uncle at Christmas where I just roll my eyes and whatever. I don't stick the boot in to him much about his views on things because its not really what I care about. I'm far more likely to put the boot in over his artistic output, which is wildly inconsistent these days for me.

 

[Anonymous]

Indeed. This was a horrific example - fat-shaming someone for effect.

https://true-to-you.net/morrissey_news_151020_02

Only too true: because of course Moz has Penelope Tree's svelteness, doesn't he? Ahahahaha.

 

[Vegan]

I've contemplated how to answer this but to be honest his political views seem all over the map so I can't really discern where he really stands. He's supported far-lefters and seemingly far-righters. I think maybe we make too much of his flippant comments (especially at a gig). I agree with his view on other animals (despite his occasional hypocrisy). Even his harshest haters surely must admit. The lad is not boring.

 

[Bluebirds]

This, 100%. When Morrissey moved to LA, he adopted the American language wholesale - he doesn't even spell in British English anymore - and at the same time a certain bluntness, lack of nuance and lack of wit came into his lyrics. I think a couple of things happened in those wilderness years - firstly he stopped being seeped in the nostalgic stew of British culture (even if it was largely harkening back to some imagined past England, that possibly never existed outside of his head and a few old movies) - secondly, he realised he now had to cultivate a global audience to survive. Now, he is singing to Mexicans, South Americans, and various other people to whom English is a second language - the result is lyrics as blunt and witless as "Brazil and Bahrain/ oh Egypt, Ukraine/ so many people in pain". He's broadened his appeal, he is a worldwide artist - but the decline in lyrical quality is also bound up in this.

Good points there la'

It always puzzled me how people who did not understand the nuances of Morrissey's lyrics "got Morrissey" but I guess he has changed to cater to a global audience.

I still think there has been the odd song since 2004 which are firmly inspired by his Northern upbringing but they become more infrequent as time moves on.

 

[Bluebirds]

I can separate the so-called art from the artist. He's a contrary old bugger but then he always has been.

Bryan Ferry and PJ Harvey are pro-hunting and pro-establishment (eg PJ accepting an honour from The Queen) but it doesn't make me appreciate their music any the less.