Bowie refusal - true-to-you.net

Bowie refusal -true-to-you.net
6 February 2013

Bowie refusal

David Bowie has ordered EMI UK not to run the proposed artwork for Morrissey's April 8th issue of the re-mastered The Last of the Famous International Playboys single and CD. The sleeve featured a previously unseen private photograph of Bowie and Morrissey taken by Linder Sterling in New York in 1992. Although Bowie has no legal rights to the photograph, most of his back catalogue is presently licensed to EMI.

 

[the raytownian]

The same position?

Morrissey's music at 53 vs. Bowie's at 53...Morrissey wins hands down. Bowie's career is hinged on what basically amounted to an early 70s gimmick that shocked mom and dad, with a little genuine greatness peppered in...but not much. Whereas on the whole, Morrissey's career and continuity of integrity have been much more consistent. So I feel that no, they are not in comparable situations. Bowie is very lucky, or should feel lucky, to have a pupil in Morrissey.

I have to agree with this... and I actually really like a few songs from "Earthling" (which seemed a lot fresher once upon a time)...
Bowie's time came and went when he started doing shit like Labyrinth (which I f***ing love, but let's face facts).

I dunno that Morrissey ever reached (and surely never will again) the level of acclaim that Bowie has for what he did in the past, but it doesn't change the fact that most of his fame is solidly based in that long-gone era of his career. He's been coasting for quite a long time.

 

[MORRIZSEY]

Morrissey's music at 53 vs. Bowie at 53...Morrissey wins hands down. Bowie's career is hinged on what basically amounted to an early 70s gimmick that shocked mom and dad..with a little genuine greatness peppered in...but not much. Whereas on the whole, Morrissey's career and conitnuity of integrity have been much more solid. So I feel that no, they are not in comparable situations. Bowie is very lucky, or should feel lucky, to have a pupil in Morrissey.



Well la di da.

 

[Anonymous]

The same position?
Morrissey's music at 53 vs. Bowie's at 53...Morrissey wins hands down.

Are you honestly trying to tell us that, at age 53, David Bowie was writing songs as utterly f***ing dreadful as The Kid's a Looker and People Are The Same Everywhere?
Please tell us which songs they were. Seriously.

 

[Skylarker]

I dunno that Morrissey ever reached (and surely never will again) the level of acclaim that Bowie has for what he did in the past, but it doesn't change the fact that most of his fame is solidly based in that long-gone era of his career. He's been coasting for quite a long time.

Who's been coasting...Bowie or Morrissey? If you're talking about Bowie I agree. I might even agree if you are talking about Morrissey, with the disclaimer that I'd take Morrissey's "coasting" over almost any other artist's peak output.

Are you honestly trying to tell us that, at age 53, David Bowie was writing songs as utterly f***ing dreadful as The Kid's a Looker and People Are The Same Everywhere?
Please tell us which songs they were. Seriously.

Ummm....all of them? And not as dreadful. Much moreso.

 

[the raytownian]

Who's been coasting...Bowie or Morrissey?

I was referring to Bowie.

EDIT: I just now noticed how poorly my post was written. It sounds like I meant Morrissey, but I meant to say...

I dunno that Morrissey ever reached (and surely never will again) the level of acclaim that Bowie has for what [DAVID BOWIE] did in the past, but it doesn't change the fact that most of [DAVID BOWIE'S] fame is solidly based in that long-gone era of his career. He's been coasting for quite a long time.

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you for contributing nothing that hasn't already been said over the past six pages of this thread.

Whereas your comments, my friend, are insightful, articulate and bursting with originality.
Are you related to Oscar Wilde?

 

[mcrickson]

Whereas your comments, my friend, are insightful, articulate and bursting with originality.
Are you related to Oscar Wilde?

 

[Skylarker]

Whereas your comments, my friend, are insightful, articulate and bursting with originality.
Are you related to Oscar Wilde?

 

[mcrickson]

I was thinking: as a replacement for the Bowie photo, a photo of Morrissey with Ron and Russell Mael would be legitimately cool for this release.

 

[Sal Kramer]

Bowie has a legitimate right to oppose the use of his image on someone else's work. Yes, even if it is Morrissey...

 

[Anonymous]

Another terrible idea. You do not put David Bowie's picture on a record if it is not a David Bowie record. There are people who handle these things. Because the rights to David Bowie's image are owned and the way it is used commercially is controlled, it's not a question of David Bowie not liking the picture. It would simply dilute his brand. If he was a famous footballer putting his picture on a record would be a different thing. This would probably confuse enough people to sell a few more records to people that might then be upset that David Bowie doesn't appear to be on the record.

What a stupid idea that would be to approve. What Morrissey says about David Bowie, unless he's talking about seeing him murder someone or something really bad, Morrissey is EXACTLY the same. Get a collaborator, use them up, change your phone number. So whatever. If this is Morrissey's big problem his life must be dull.

 

[Chip]

The same position?

Morrissey's music at 53 vs. Bowie's at 53...Morrissey wins hands down. Bowie's career is hinged on what basically amounted to an early 70s gimmick that shocked mom and dad, with a little genuine greatness peppered in...but not much. Whereas on the whole, Morrissey's career and continuity of integrity have been much more consistent. So I feel that no, they are not in comparable situations. Bowie is very lucky, or should feel lucky, to have a pupil in Morrissey.



Well la di da.

Really? Have you listened to any Bowie's post glam stuff? What about his Berlin trilogy he did with Brian Eno? All of which are post glam, but very influential and critically acclaimed.

I personally like Morrissey more than Bowie and his music means more to me, but to try to dismiss Bowie as being just entirely an early 70s gimmick act seems completely laughable to me.

 

[Skylarker]

Really? Have you listened to any Bowie's post glam stuff? What about his Berlin trilogy he did with Brian Eno? All of which are post glam, but very influential and critically acclaimed.

I personally like Morrissey more than Bowie and his music means more to me, but to try to dismiss Bowie as being just entirely an early 70s gimmick act seems completely laughable to me.

I don't really hate Bowie enough to spend a lot of time arguing the point. If you say he's great post early 70s, fine, listen to him all you want. I, personally, have very little time for him. That does not mean I think he turned into shit after Aladdin Sane or Low or whatever. I'm just saying that without the theatrics and schtick of the Stardust era stuff, I don't think he would have been as revered. He was the antithesis to the dirty hippie thing, and he was extremely risque culturally at that time, and I think those aspects of his persona were gimmicky and they dwarfed, or at least competed with, his actual relevance as a songwriter.

I'm not saying the gimmicks weren't kind of cool, just that they were gimmicks. He was extremely contrived and extremely pretentious...but he also happened to be a very good singer and (at times) a very good songwriter. And hell, he inspired Morrissey, so whatever.

His later "experimental" stuff, and the 90s comeback stuff...I mean, whatever. Meh. But hey, many people feel that way about post-Smiths Morrissey, which I disagree with. So to each his own.

My overall point was that it's petulant for him to be a little bitch about the photograph. Morrissey had him onstage with him in 91, at the height of his (Morrissey's) US fame, and Bowie was washed up at that point. And God knows how many people Morrissey has turned on to Bowie's music via his cover of Drive In Saturday not to mention how many times in 30 years he's sung Bowie's praises in interviews. And yeah, he's talked a little shit about him too. So what. If that's the reason Bowie is denying the use of the photo (and I am just assuming it is, not claiming to know, obviously) then that is very childish on Bowie's part.

Niggas gotta stick together.

 

[CrystalGeezer]

I don't really hate Bowie enough to spend a lot of time arguing the point. If you say he's great post early 70s, fine, listen to him all you want. I, personally, have very little time for him. That does not mean I think he turned into shit after Aladdin Sane or Low or whatever. I'm just saying that without the theatrics and schtick of the Stardust era stuff, I don't think he would have been as revered. He was the antithesis to the dirty hippie thing, and he was extremely risque culturally at that time, and I think those aspects of his persona were gimmicky and they dwarfed, or at least competed with, his actual relevance as a songwriter.

I'm not saying the gimmicks weren't kind of cool, just that they were gimmicks. He was extremely contrived and extremely pretentious...but he also happened to be a very good singer and (at times) a very good songwriter. And hell, he inspired Morrissey, so whatever.

His later "experimental" stuff, and the 90s comeback stuff...I mean, whatever. Meh. But hey, many people feel that way about post-Smiths Morrissey, which I disagree with. So to each his own.

My overall point was that it's petulant for him to be a little bitch about the photograph. Morrissey had him onstage with him in 91, at the height of his (Morrissey's) US fame, and Bowie was washed up at that point. And God knows how many people Morrissey has turned on to Bowie's music via his cover of Drive In Saturday not to mention how many times in 30 years he's sung Bowie's praises in interviews. And yeah, he's talked a little shit about him too. So what. If that's the reason Bowie is denying the use of the photo (and I am just assuming it is, not claiming to know, obviously) then that is very childish on Bowie's part.

Niggas gotta stick together.

Lol.

 

[Johnny Barleycorn]

I don't really hate Bowie enough to spend a lot of time arguing the point. If you say he's great post early 70s, fine, listen to him all you want. I, personally, have very little time for him. That does not mean I think he turned into shit after Aladdin Sane or Low or whatever. I'm just saying that without the theatrics and schtick of the Stardust era stuff, I don't think he would have been as revered. He was the antithesis to the dirty hippie thing, and he was extremely risque culturally at that time, and I think those aspects of his persona were gimmicky and they dwarfed, or at least competed with, his actual relevance as a songwriter.

I'm not saying the gimmicks weren't kind of cool, just that they were gimmicks. He was extremely contrived and extremely pretentious...but he also happened to be a very good singer and (at times) a very good songwriter. And hell, he inspired Morrissey, so whatever.

His later "experimental" stuff, and the 90s comeback stuff...I mean, whatever. Meh. But hey, many people feel that way about post-Smiths Morrissey, which I disagree with. So to each his own.

My overall point was that it's petulant for him to be a little bitch about the photograph. Morrissey had him onstage with him in 91, at the height of his (Morrissey's) US fame, and Bowie was washed up at that point. And God knows how many people Morrissey has turned on to Bowie's music via his cover of Drive In Saturday not to mention how many times in 30 years he's sung Bowie's praises in interviews. And yeah, he's talked a little shit about him too. So what. If that's the reason Bowie is denying the use of the photo (and I am just assuming it is, not claiming to know, obviously) then that is very childish on Bowie's part.

Niggas gotta stick together.

One of the several things I didn't like about Morrissey's "...'71, ...'72" quote was the impression he gave, and continues to give, that music has to be some sort of Khmer Rouge Year Zero, it's of the now or its nothing, and what came before is barely relevant. This feeds into his delusion about the supposed status of both ROTT and YOR in his canon, and his apparent belief that what are now provably to be consigned to history as unfinished b-side fillers are of any worth whatever.

My view is that with some exceptions Bowie was finished as a truly important creative artist by Scary Monsters in 1980. The decade before that saw him release classic album after classic album. Definitions of classic vary from person to person, but if Station To Station doesn't outsell the impending Playboys rehash in the week of its release I'll buy a hat and eat it.

Bowie's high watermark was Ziggy, while Morrissey's was The Queen Is Dead. Neither will reach those peaks again, not least because with works like that timing is also very important. That does not mean both have not released important and impressive works both before and since, but both are unable to match those albums or any part of them today.

 

[ANON REVIEWER]

Bowie VS Morrissey album rating time. Excludes live albums. Rating also excludes the album's importance in history, only its actual music merit, not how important an influence it was to other musicians and society; most critics tend to over rate albums in this way.

The Man Who Sold the World 6
Hunky Dory 8.5
Ziggy Stardust 9.5
Aladdin Sane 8.5
Diamond Dogs 7
Young Americans 6.5
Station to Station 8.5
Low 8.5
Heroes 7.5
Lodger 8
Scary Monsters 8.5
Let's Dance 6.5
Tonight 4
Never Let Me Down 3
Outside 7.5
Earthling 6.5
Hours 5
Heathen 7
Reality 6.5

The Smiths 8.5
Hatful Of Hollow 8.5
Meat Is Murder 8.5
Queen Is Dead 9.5
Strangeways 8
Louder Than Bombs 9
Viva Hate 8
Bona Drag 9
Kill Uncle 6.5
Your Arsenal 8.5
Vauxhall and I 7.5
Southpaw Grammar 6.5
Maladjusted 4
You Are the Quarry 7.5
Ringleader of the Tormentors 7.5
Years of Refusal 7
Swords 5

 

[Anonymous]

If it comes to taking sides between Bowie and Morrissey, my beloved Moz will always win. While Bowie did change the look and sound of music forever, he has not produced anything relevant in decades. Bowie made some entertaining music, but he has never saved my life; Morrissey has so many times that I have lost count. Morrissey writes like the greatest Irish literary figures: he tells a story with immense detail, he paints vivid imagery with his words, he carefully and purposefully manipulates language, and most importantly, he articulates the most intense human emotions. That is why so many of us feel connected to him. I listen to his lyrics and feel like I have been emotionally mugged, knocked to the ground by his words and kicked repeatedly, and when I can finally pull myself up, I scream please give me more, Morrissey. While I would agree that there have been a few songs in the past couple of years that are a bit sub-par for Morrissey, his work is still exponentially better than most current offerings; and because he set the bar so high for himself right from the start, his work will always be more acutely evaluated . To me, each Morrissey record is a treasure chest, you open it up and there are so many beautiful selections; however, there are always two or three that are so perfect that they bring tears to your eyes. This is true even with ROTT and YOR, but most fans overlook them because they do not sound like Morrissey of the past. I have no problem with him experimenting with new sounds, I just wish he would lay off the Viagra--I like my Morrissey soft (We'll Let You Know, Trouble Loves Me, Nobody Loves Us, Camden, Dear God,etc.). But as far as comparing Bowie to Morrissey, to me, Bowie will always be the Brian Slade/ Tommy Stone character from Velvet Goldmine and Morrissey will always be the Arthur Stuart character, the shy, sweet boy from Northern England who was saved by the music of his youth, yet grew up to realize that the industry that he had once idolized was ruthless, vapid, and steeped with hypocrisy. I wish with all of my heart that Morrissey's health improves, that he overcomes his physical ailments, moments of unbearable despair, and the insecurities concerning his career, and just gets back to the business of writing the emotionally charged lyrics that have drawn all of us to him. He needs to know that while there are some people who feel compelled to sling arrows at him, there are so many more of us here who would gladly jump in front of those arrows to protect him. Long live Morrissey.

 

[Johnny Barleycorn]

That's pretty fair, although I'd add a point to Young Americans, Lodger, Hollow, Strangeways and Quarry.

 

[Anonymous]

To me, this isn't a either/or situation. Both Moz and Bowie ARE seminal artists in their own right. I like them both a lot. But I certainly don't owe either of them my unswearving devotion lol. How sad would that be? I'm a grown adult, for God's sake. Not some teary, starry-eyed pre-pubescent teenybopper.

Fact is, haters are gonna hate either way. Their minds are set and that's that. Objectivity goes out the window. The shutters are up. But for the record, and coming from angle of total impartiality, I would state without hesititation state that David Bowie's 1990's output which includes albums like 'Black Tie, White Noise', 'Outside', 'Earthling', 'Hours' and the little heard but astonishing 'Buddha Of Suburbia' are nearly up there with his groundbreaking and amazing run of albums from 1969-80. Likewise 'Heathen' and to a lesser degree 'Reality'. I seen him live in 2003 and he was superb, at the top of his game. His heart attack of course put an end to that and for the past 10 years the guy has retreated gracefully to spend time with his young daughter and family. His sudden and totally unexpected return a few weeks back is to be welcomed by any objective music fan.

Of course, opinions are opinions and there are those Moz fans who will dislike Bowie whatever the case (and vice-versa). Fair enough. Whatever gets you off. That position will never change. However, for this Morrissey AND Bowie fan I celebrate the fact that I can be objective enough to revel in both of these amazing and life-changing artists and not blindly come down on one side or the other. Why should I? I'll follow and listen to whoever I like. And both these men have made great (and, yes, sometimes not-so-great) music in their careers.

Like some others, my only regret is that they had a parting of the ways which looks like will never be resolved. Now THAT is a shame. I would've liked those differences to be settled. But you know what? To have had their music in my life is enough for me. It's been and continues to be a hell of a great ride. Wonderful artists, great singers, top memories. That'll do for me thank you very much. Oh, and the photo 'issue'? Yes, I think Moz is being a bit cheeky to be honest. But essentially, it's a here-today-gone-tomorrow story. I'm just waiting for the new Bowie album in March (reportedly, it's great) and Moz to return to full health soon.

 

[Anonymous]

bowie is more than aware that he has been outclassed at his own game by Moz for at least two decades.
he tried to put him in his place with that stunt on their tour, that backfired big time. this is just sour grapes, he's got nothing lyrically on Moz and he knows it.