Are Morrissey's lyrics "better" because he didn't attend university

[King Leer]

Bit of an odd question, this one, but a "what if?" question I've thought about for many years.

If Morrissey had gone to Uni do you think his lyrics wouldn't be as unique? He's obviously drawn on a bottomless well of poetry, literature, films. Would a higher learning institution have been like a middle man that took a percentage of his raw creativity away? Or would it have sent his lyrical genius even higher into the stratosphere?

A university-educated person would probably (emphasis on probably) not make the grammatical/spelling errors "Everyday is Like Sunday," "You Know I Couldn't Last" (the original Candy Darling quote was "Did you know..."), pronounce "annals" as "anals" etc. Having said that, Morrissey has intentionally incorporated grammatical errors into his lyrics ("I just wish you'd stay where you is" from America...)

Thoughts?

 

[M-in-Oz]

I'm not sure of the answer, it is a really good question. Most of his material used for writing inspiration was already there, so University might have only provided other sources of inspiration. University might also have led him to a different path, rather than the desperation Morrissey felt for 'something' to happen in the lead up to the formation of the Smiths.
As for improving grammar, I've been at University for eight years and have poor grammar.

 

[not_me_not_I]

If his horrendous secondary school educational experience wasn't bad enough to beat the creativity out of him, I can't see uni doing his creativity any harm.

 

[trextacy]

probably, but not because of the reasons you cited (grammatical straying, spelling...all matters addressed in elementary school and more than likely intentional "mistakes" my Morrissey).

College (as we call it in America) and formal education in general has a habit of stifling certain kinds of creativity and modes of expression, and channeling students into selecting certain career paths. I'm betraying my own biases here (a hopeless lawyer wondering where it all went so "wrong").

But I would vote "no" since Morrissey would write what he writes regardless of hours spent in a classroom. There have been plenty of unique voices who have bent, stretched and disregard rules of grammar and spelling who held doctorates.

I do like the question though! (and didn't know the bit about Candy Darling- thanks for that)

 

[King Leer]

Re-reading my original post, I did put too much emphasis on the grammar/spelling slip ups. I don't think the mistake of "Everyday" instead of "Every Day" makes the lyrics any "worse" -- I was just using those bits as an indicator of someone whom we all know is self-educated and literate beyond most but sometimes makes obvious boo-boos. Using "racial" incorrectly in the original lyrics of Irish Blood is another one I just remembered.

I was, as trextacy stated, more interested in what could've happened creatively (my 2nd paragraph).

Needless to say, there are plenty of journalists, novelists and poets with degrees coming out their ears who admire the genius of Morrissey's words. I imagine some of them are envious of not being able to tap into the human condition the way he has. Maybe higher learning got in the way, maybe it didn't.

 

[lainey]

What's wrong with being self educated.
The desire for knowledge is there, the libraries are accessible, nice bookkshops so why would someone telling you to read this and that, improve the mind when most people are capable of making those decisions for themselves. I know I was and I still am.
I think Morrissey has done very well for himself as did the many, many people who didn't need someone telling them what to do, how to do it and teaching them how to think.
Charles Dickens
Morrissey
William Blake
George Bernard Shaw (left education)
Quentin Tarantino
Florence Nightingale (none of those doctors had any common sense before she came along)
Thomas Edison
Jane Austin
Elizabeth Barrett Browning
Robbie Burns
J D Salinger


I bet there are lots more people who had/have brilliant minds without the need for university. It's a shame some of you think they would be improved and are lacking.....I disagree.

 

[Thelioninlove]

Regarding the Everyday inaccuracy, it is vaguely possible that the misspelling is deliberate, as to hint upon an alternative meaning.

The website LASID provides the following:

" [Everyday Is Like Sunday] is often cited as an example of Mozzer's miserablism. Nothing could really be further from the truth, when it comes to this song, at least. None of the critics seem to have noticed that there is deliberately no space between the words "every" and "day". I suggest they look at the difference in meaning between "everyday" and "every day". Rather than moping about his whole life being dull, this song is a brilliant eulogy to finally escaping from an awful life best left behind. "

 

[Boethius]

What an interesting post!
The answer to your theoretical question would, in my opinion, depend upon which institution Mr M may have attended, and by whom he would have received tuterage, rather than upon Morrissey himself. That is to say the term 'university', in the UK, is now used to encompass a very wide range of academic establishments, some of which may have suited Mr M, some not. It is (again solely my opinion) that both the modern National Curriculum and the majority of UK 'universities' train, instead of educate, their pupils and therefore restrict creativity. The remaining few still educate. When speaking of education I favour the definition proferred by Murial Spark's Jean Brodie; "The word "education" comes from the root e from ex, out, and duco, I lead. It means a leading out. To me education is a leading out of what is already there in the pupil's soul." I believe this 'education' would have suited Mr M very well. Very well indeed.
On the issue of grammar/spelling 'slip-ups', I do not think a university education would influence this either way. Some very well educated people choose to write with grammatical flaws in their work and this becomes part of their style.
In conclusion to the above rambling argument I don't think we will ever know if a university education would have altered the Great Man's work. I, for one, will forever be grateful for the quality of his output and the influence it has had upon my life.

 

[lainey]

If each day is boring and a regular, continuous occurrence then....
Everyday is like Sunday.
Please enlighten me to why this may be incorrect. I'm genuinely confused.

 

[King Leer]

"Everyday" is an adjective, as in "It's an everyday occurrence" or "She wears everyday fashion". The song is saying "every (single) day" is the same.
It may well have been on purpose but it's hard to know as there are both errors and intentional mistakes throughout Morrissey's lyrics.

Someone mentioned Tarantino above. I actually think Tarantino is, in a way, the Morrissey of screenwriting. Not in taste or sensibility, but there's a raw poetry to the writing next to some grammar and spelling howlers. Tarantino was never "fixed" by higher learning either.

Boethius - brilliant points about the type of institution. Looking at where Morrissey grew up, his lot in life, etc. What would've been a likely destination for "Steven"?

lainey - to make it easy. "Everyday is like Sunday" is like writing "Daily is like Sunday".

 

[Boethius]

King Leer,

"Looking at where Morrissey grew up, his lot in life, etc. What would've been a likely destination for "Steven"?"

Good point! Currently I would say that one of the most progressive courses would be English at Cambridge University (probably Clare or Emmanuel College). However, at the time Mr M would have attended (1977?) this would probably have seemed too 'elitist' for his tastes. Nowadays this percieved elitism has faded towards a meritocracy based solely upon academic capability and promise and not background, sex, race, etc.

However, with or without a university education I believe that he is one of the very few modern linguists (others that spring to mind include Dylan Thomas and Alan Bennett) who see such extraordinariness in the mundane and can create such deep feeling using relatively simple language. A great artist indeed.

King Leer / Lainey,

"to make it easy. "Everyday is like Sunday" is like writing "Daily is like Sunday". "
Mmmmm. I agree totally with the fact that if the assumption is that each day is like a Sunday then the title is grammatically incorrect. I, however, perhaps erroneously, have always assumed the title to equate to 'Mundane is like Sunday', which although also grammatically incorrect would reflect the state of the nation when the song was written and even more so now.

I am regretting answering this post as I seem to be confusing myself!!!! I apologise for anyone else reading this. I am now going to make a nice pot of EG and sit in my garden tending my sweet peas. Good day to one and all.

 

[joe frady]

Morrissey + University = Nicky Wire/T(h)om Yorke/Stuart Murdoch, et al: i.e all mouth and no trousers. Clever swines to be sure, but their hearts not in it.
The great unknoweable is would whatever Morrissey had, and has still, be dulled or even decimated by 'Higher' Education? It's not really something I lose sleep over

 

[lainey]

Morrissey + University = Nicky Wire/T(h)om Yorke/Stuart Murdoch, et al: i.e all mouth and no trousers. Clever swines to be sure, but their hearts not in it.
The great unknoweable is would whatever Morrissey had, and has still, be dulled or even decimated by 'Higher' Education? It's not really something I lose sleep over

Yes, how can anyone possible say Morrissey could have improved his songs.
How stupid. I say they should become Muse fans.

To add to my list of none uni attendees
Bob Dylan
Mary Angelo
Albert Einstein
Robert Browning

and as I posted above I'm correct about Everyday been correct so there is no discussion about lack of education. I find it insulting as I know people who did indeed get their degrees and I'm afraid leave alot to be desired. for example, you can get a poor doctor, lawyer, teacher.......
Give me a self educated person anyday. I can't abide snobs.

 

[Dave]

Yes, how can anyone possible say Morrissey could have improved his songs.
How stupid. I say they should become Muse fans.

To add to my list of none uni attendees
Bob Dylan
Mary Angelo
Albert Einstein
Robert Browning

and as I posted above I'm correct about Everyday been correct so there is no discussion about lack of education. I find it insulting as I know people who did indeed get their degrees and I'm afraid leave alot to be desired. for example, you can get a poor doctor, lawyer, teacher.......
Give me a self educated person anyday. I can't abide snobs.

You really seem to take this personally.

 

[ChrisL]

Bit of an odd question, this one, but a "what if?" question I've thought about for many years.

If Morrissey had gone to Uni do you think his lyrics wouldn't be as unique? He's obviously drawn on a bottomless well of poetry, literature, films. Would a higher learning institution have been like a middle man that took a percentage of his raw creativity away? Or would it have sent his lyrical genius even higher into the stratosphere?

A university-educated person would probably (emphasis on probably) not make the grammatical/spelling errors "Everyday is Like Sunday," "You Know I Couldn't Last" (the original Candy Darling quote was "Did you know..."), pronounce "annals" as "anals" etc. Having said that, Morrissey has intentionally incorporated grammatical errors into his lyrics ("I just wish you'd stay where you is" from America...)

Thoughts?

Yes, very odd question indeed...Morrissey was far better read as a teenager than most American college grads. One thing that always hits my ear when I hear it: "The headless pack/are back" rather than "is back". Though I totally forgive Cemetry Gates. It should be spelled like that.

 

[King Leer]

Cemetry Gates - how could I have forgotten that one? I was never sure if it was an intentional pronunciation spelling (along the lines of "Pashernate Love"). There must be anecdotes about this, but does anybody attempt to correct Moz when these errors crop up?

Regarding group nouns (family, team, pack etc.) taking the singular or plural of be, that's a really confusing topic where it depends on the noun itself and whether it's British or American English.

On a tangent, I've noticed that whenever Morrissey writes prose (sleeve notes, press releases etc.) there's always one camp that says his writing is brilliant and another that slags it off as high school-level.

Yes, very odd question indeed...Morrissey was far better read as a teenager than most American college grads. One thing that always hits my ear when I hear it: "The headless pack/are back" rather than "is back". Though I totally forgive Cemetry Gates. It should be spelled like that.

 

[celibate]

reading learned Morrissey how to write lyrics and build up a song technacly, but the issues about
the lyrics come from personal life perspectives and tv drama, and
books and the Manchester newspapers etc.

' books are not stanley-knives'

 

[I am a Ghost]

Yes..

 

[I am a Ghost]

Yes, how can anyone possible say Morrissey could have improved his songs.
How stupid. I say they should become Muse fans.

To add to my list of none uni attendees
Bob Dylan
Mary Angelo
Albert Einstein
Robert Browning

and as I posted above I'm correct about Everyday been correct so there is no discussion about lack of education. I find it insulting as I know people who did indeed get their degrees and I'm afraid leave alot to be desired. for example, you can get a poor doctor, lawyer, teacher.......
Give me a self educated person anyday. I can't abide snobs.

Snob!

 

[lainey]

snobbery in reserve doesn't count.