Are fan opinions of YoR more divided than any Moz album yet?

[Oh my god. it's Robby!]

Kill Uncle, its awesome, but fake fans dont think so

 

[Worm]

I don't think, though, that although Morrissey has a beautiful way with poetic language, that he has ever "aestheticized into airy" any painful emotion.

I know he hasn't. That's why I was praising him.

Look at it this way. There's tremendous power in saying something like "I'm still ill". Or, as Morrissey put it decades ago (sigh), "I was ill and I said I was ill and nobody had done that before". Do we really want him to reach for a thesaurus to say again what he's already said before-- unforgettably?

 

[Worm]

Kill Uncle, its awesome, but fake fans dont think so

"Kill Uncle" is awesome played live. The studio album is a wasted opportunity. It ceased to exist for me on June 1, 1991.

 

[spleenhead]

I know he hasn't. That's why I was praising him.

Look at it this way. There's tremendous power in saying something like "I'm still ill". Or, as Morrissey put it decades ago (sigh), "I was ill and I said I was ill and nobody had done that before". Do we really want him to reach for a thesaurus to say again what he's already said before-- unforgettably?

You're right. I'm not someone who thinks Morrissey has lost it, and at times his songs still blow me away. But even instead of reaching for a thesaurus, he could just call it a day.

 

[Worm]

You're right. I'm not someone who thinks Morrissey has lost it, and at times his songs still blow me away. But even instead of reaching for a thesaurus, he could just call it a day.

It will doubtless bore you to tears to know that I've considered the "call it a day" scenario. You're correct, of course. Exiting would be quick and clean and leave everything intact.

The case against that scenario?

He is singing better than ever.

Even the unimpressed admit that with each new album he adds at least a few good to great songs to the Morrissey canon.

Morrissey on playing live, 1988: "The feeling of power was just like having a vacuum cleaner shoved up your blazer". Still applicable two decades on.

Lastly, and most importantly, Morrissey standing in the center of the ring in 2009, bloodied but still unbeaten, is nothing less than inspirational. He is a survivor, and his survival dignifies and deepens every single complaint, whinge, moan, and sniffle he's ever had. Years of Refusal is another reminder that the "pansy" who once whined "I am human and I need to be loved" turned out to be one tough son of a bitch. No small symbolic victory, that.

 

[King Leer]

I think the overall appraisal of Ringleader was lower than for Years (Johan's polls will help sort this out) but I can't remember anybody saying it was his 2nd best or even best solo album. The highs and lows of the debate over YoR seem more extreme, but things haven't calmed down yet. I also think the live shows change people's perceptions of songs to a degree. Black Cloud looks to come into its own and I wonder how Birthday will come off live?

I remember a lot more division over ROTT.

 

[King Leer]

I agree that there isn't enough focus on how Morrissey is singing the words he's singing and too much on the lyrics.

To my ears, Morrissey is wide awake and full of piss and vinegar throughout this record. Lyrics like "sorry doesn't help" or "did you really think we meant all those syrupy, sentimental things that we said?" or "I'm a savage beast, I've got nothing to sell" might not be the most brilliant words Morrissey has comeup with but everything is sung with such conviction. We should bow down and give thanks...

It will doubtless bore you to tears to know that I've considered the "call it a day" scenario. You're correct, of course. Exiting would be quick and clean and leave everything intact.

The case against that scenario?

He is singing better than ever.

Even the unimpressed admit that with each new album he adds at least a few good to great songs to the Morrissey canon.

Morrissey on playing live, 1988: "The feeling of power was just like having a vacuum cleaner shoved up your blazer". Still applicable two decades on.

Lastly, and most importantly, Morrissey standing in the center of the ring in 2009, bloodied but still unbeaten, is nothing less than inspirational. He is a survivor, and his survival dignifies and deepens every single complaint, whinge, moan, and sniffle he's ever had. Years of Refusal is another reminder that the "pansy" who once whined "I am human and I need to be loved" turned out to be one tough son of a bitch. No small symbolic victory, that.

 

[16Nov]

The "ROTT" and "Kill Uncle" were the most loved / hated by the fans in your time
Maybe "Maladjusted" also

 

[Theo]

I remember when so many of the Morrissey fans on AOL's message boards and Usenet hated on Vauxhall & I (some of you were so low even before SoLow). But then I noticed their other fave acts were, like, Duran Duran and stuff.

There's a lot of Refusal haters on this site. But bear in mind, some of these haters can also be found, in the chatroom, praising the likes of Billy Joel as their fave singer. :

All Mozza's albums get divided initial reactions cuz he doesn't just do the same album over and over. I remember slamming Ringleader but eventually I realized I had been wrong. It's fine if people don't like an album, but the problem is often the listener, not the music.

I listen to Years of Refusal in full every day, as should you all.

 

[brutalityobscene]

Kill Uncle, its awesome, but fake fans dont think so

I always wondered why people disliked this album so much. The only problem I have with it is how short it is, but King Leer, Girlfriend, Family Line, Hell, Our Frank. . . Geez, I like the entire album. Bleak production, catchy songs, it has a bad rep for no reason imo.

Oh, and Years Of Refusal is friggin metal. I'm already sick of the hating.

 

[Orson Swells]

No - YES! - maybe...

 

[Kewpie]

In fairness, it could also be the reaction of a divided group of fans, some of whom think he has lost what he once had and others who refuse to see Morrissey criticised.
Me, I'm undecided.

Seconded.

I've only listened the album three times so far, but decided not listen it until I actually see live.

 

[Comtesse]

Southpaw Grammar splits opinion quite a bit too doesn't it?

Not when it was first released. I think it was nearly universally despised when it was first released. (At least, I never heard a kind word about it at the time, with the exception of one or two songs.) It's only over subsequent years that some people have come round to liking it, for some inexplicable reason.

 

[Comtesse]

"Kill Uncle" is awesome played live. The studio album is a wasted opportunity. It ceased to exist for me on June 1, 1991.

I have always felt the opposite: the studio version (while extremely weak) is far superior to the horrible live versions of the songs. The band could not play at that time. They came around for Your Arsenal, but Kill Uncle was embarrassingly amateurish.

 

[Worm]

I have always felt the opposite: the studio version (while extremely weak) is far superior to the horrible live versions of the songs. The band could not play at that time. They came around for Your Arsenal, but Kill Uncle was embarrassingly amateurish.

Almost every one of those shows was a globe-shattering triumph. Amateurish? Mmmmmmaybe.

Algernon: I don't play accurately--any one can play accurately--but I play with wonderful expression.​

 

[Anaesthesine]

I have hazy memories of Viva Hate being a real make or break moment for Morrissey.

I wasn't a fanatical Smiths fan back then, but I had friends who were. Some of them lost interest at that moment and never looked back, and some of them stayed on the crazy wagon and rode it for a few more years.

Morrissey has been continuously "losing it" and "finding it" again for so long it makes my head spin.

 

[alma matters]

My husband is who got me into Morrissey, and he hasn't liked anything since Maladjusted. He did not like quarry or ROTT. I thought he'd like YOR, but he does not. Yet he still loves all the earlier solo stuff. His two favorite songs are "Tomorrow" and "Billy Budd" (YA and V&I tracks, seems pretty in line with many people thinking those are his two best)

Do you think there are many fans who loved The Smiths and liked pre-2004 Morrissey solo who just do not like the new stuff? At first I would've thought because the newer stuff is very different, but then again, with every new album, even dating back to the early years, they were all a little different. Maybe many thought that with Mala, an album generally percieved as weak, was the end and he just lost his spark. While I do like Quarry, ROTT and YOR all in their own ways, I would not call them epic, in the ways YA, V&I and even VH are.

 

[Mclenarr]

Well i've just got it...for a fiver in the second hand section!! Who the hell sells cd's less than two weeks since it came out?

 

[VoxGuy]

I think YOR is one of his best. I love the fact that it's loud and brash. Lyrically it may not be up to some of the others, but as for sound it hits harder and I really like that.