Who is that well dressed man? Oh, it's a Mormon.

[Justus]

So I hope Mr Hinckley did everything he could to stop the mormon church from raising 22 million dollars to promote Proposition 8.

Because if he didn't, he just told you a big fat lie.

like i said, most of us know better, but as humans we arent very consistent.

christ's doctrine was very odd to his hearers, very few understood. even now i believe what he said was far ahead of our time. our understanding as a people is evolving, hopefully toward enlightenment and to see what christ was actually saying. grandma always said, "my boy, the gospel is for the imperfect people of the world!"

 

[Flax]

No, I think the point was made that you're inconsistent with your righteous outrage.

in.con.sist.ent |ˌinkənˈsistənt|
adjective
not staying the same throughout; having self-contradictory elements.


Give me one example of contradiction.

 

[Flax]

like i said, most of us know better, but as humans we arent very consistent.

By "us" you mean "us the mormons"? Because if that's case, I find it hard to believe that the mormons would know better and yet be able to raise to raise 22 million dollars to promote bigotry.

christ's doctrine was very odd to his hearers, very few understood. even now i believe what he said was far ahead of our time. our understanding as a people is evolving, hopefully toward enlightenment and to see what christ was actually saying. grandma always said, "my boy, the gospel is for the imperfect people of the world!"

Can you give me one example of something he said that was far ahead of our time?

 

[Uncleskinny]

I find it fascinating that a 'long-time-lurker' pops up to discuss Mormonism, and nothing else.

For what it's worth, you believe what the hell you like, but the moment it starts affecting other people who didn't ask for it, then I start getting angry.

P.

 

[jeane]

I'm looking forward to the "Oh, it's a Jew" thread.

you can start one if you like. i'll add to it. the thing is, jews are the complete opposite. rather than trying to increase their flock, they want to keep it a very tight selective group.

going back to my original question, it wasn't to mormon bash but rather just to discover the methods in which they try to convert.

 

[Dave]

in.con.sist.ent |ˌinkənˈsistənt|
adjective
not staying the same throughout; having self-contradictory elements.


Give me one example of contradiction.

You support Obama who laughed at a protester who asked him to end "don't ask; don't tell" and said "we're working on it fellas", and who had a religious nut address the nation and the world at his inaugural address, a man who compared homosexuality to bestiality and pedophilia. That's okay for some reason, even though the change we're getting from Obama is more like he and Bush simply tag-teamed us all.

But when another religious group is trying to ban gay marriage and has similar views, you rail against them, because they are conservative,

 

[dunya]

Justus

christ's message always came back to compassion and love. loving those who feel misunderstood, alone, 'perceived' enemies. Matt 5:43-47. we all know who christ spent most of his time on earth with, those shut out from the world. why do we forget this?
.....
to me the blame is not on the church and the doctrine, but the people who just dont, or wont, understand. i always find myself putting limits on the tolerance i have been taught and should have, we ALL know better

One of my friends is involved in a religious group. Though an ardent feminist she continues to be involved in a group which relegates women to second place, making tea and tidying the chairs, and whose spiritual authority extends only to women's meetings, while the men get to lead mixed-sex meetings and take positions of responsibility and decision-making. She says "I want to change the organisation from within. I take a lesser place as an exercise in spiritual humility."

But why don't the enlightened men in the organisation assist her? Because they quite like being waited on, and having status as leaders. Their elevated position has nothing to do with being more spiritually aware, and so many do not even appear to think there is a problem. If they did, they'd try to change things, wouldn't they?

Does she help herself by quashing her simmering resentment in the hope that someone might take her seriously, at the expense of their own comfort?
A better choice might be to leave the organisation, and perhaps promote an organisation which is both spiritually fulfilling and encourages her to make the most of her talents. It's not as if there is a shortage of religious choices. She stays because she has been indoctrinated to believe that this is the ONLY way.

the last president of the church, gordon b hinckley said "Now we have gays in the church. Good people. We take no action against such people – provided they don’t become involved in transgression, sexual transgression. If they do, we do with them exactly what we’d do with heterosexuals who transgress"

a gay person can be a happy involved member of the church, go on missions, and so on. but strict chastity is required for all members

So a gay couple in a civil partnership/marriage would be OK?

 

[jeane]

My ex-boyfriend was a mormon. Their religion is not more or less strange then any other religion. Maybe Joseph Smith made it all up but maybe Jesus or Buddha made it all up as well. Most mormons that live in Utah live a rather protected life so they may be a bit narrow minded, but so are a lot of people. But they are individuals just like everyone else, it's really difficult to describe what a typical mormon is like.

jackie was your ex ever a missionary? do you have to be a missionary to be able to convert or can anyone do it if the situation arises? how did he feel about the historical racist aspect of the the religion? is it similar to jw's or even scientologists for that matter, where new people are given only a select amount of information upon joining?

 

[Jackie London]

jackie was your ex ever a missionary? do you have to be a missionary to be able to convert or can anyone do it if the situation arises? how did he feel about the historical racist aspect of the the religion? is it similar to jw's or even scientologists for that matter, where new people are given only a select amount of information upon joining?

Yes, he was a missionary, he was Elder D for 2 years.
No, anyone can convert. It's actually considered a duty for all members to preach the gospel whenever they get the chance, missionaries have as their duty for 1,5 to 2 years to preach the gospel full time. To become a member of the chuch you need to be baptized and any man who has the priesthood can baptize someone. So anyone can convert someone really. Most people who do become members generally have family or friends who are members.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "historical racist aspect of the religion" but I assume you mean the fact that black men couldn't get the priesthood. We talked about it and he said that he personally couldn't understand why but he said that you have to remember that when the prophet says something (that black men can't have the priesthood for example) it's not the prophet that speaks, it's god who speaks through the prophet. So even when there are things we don't like or don't understand, it's from god and it's the prophets calling to speak it.
Yes, there are things you don't get to know from the start. What goes on in the temple for example. Only worthy members who have been members for at least one year are allowed in to the temple, you can however to parts of the temple work before that but you're not allowed full access to the temple before that. It's because it's considered so holy that not everyone can know it. It's the same in a lot of other religions/organisations; Scientology, Tibetan Buddhism, Freemasonry, O.T.O., different forms of mysticism etc.

 

[Amy]

... not sure exactly what you mean by "historical racist aspect of the religion" but I assume you mean the fact that black men couldn't get the priesthood. We talked about it and he said that he personally couldn't understand why but he said that you have to remember that when the prophet says something (that black men can't have the priesthood for example) it's not the prophet that speaks, it's god who speaks through the prophet. So even when there are things we don't like or don't understand, it's from god and it's the prophets calling to speak it.

A ridiculous cop-out excuse which indicates that 'God' himself is racist. Top stuff, Mormons .

 

[Flax]

You support Obama who laughed at a protester who asked him to end "don't ask; don't tell" and said "we're working on it fellas", and who had a religious nut address the nation and the world at his inaugural address, a man who compared homosexuality to bestiality and pedophilia. That's okay for some reason, even though the change we're getting from Obama is more like he and Bush simply tag-teamed us all.

But when another religious group is trying to ban gay marriage and has similar views, you rail against them, because they are conservative,

I support Obama? hahahahaha

Is that who I voted for?

 

[Jackie London]

A ridiculous cop-out excuse which indicates that 'God' himself is racist. Top stuff, Mormons .

That is the opinion of one mormon who I know. It doesn't mean that all other mormons (remember there is around 13 milion mormons all over the world) agree.

 

[Black Cloud]

We have some Mormons in our family, and they eat more Jello than anybody I've ever known in my entire life.

 

[Amy]

That is the opinion of one mormon who I know. It doesn't mean that all other mormons (remember there is around 13 milion mormons all over the world) agree.

The alternative - that the prophets themselves are racist - isn't any better.

 

[Jackie London]

The alternative - that the prophets themselves are racist - isn't any better.

I can't believe google made such a strange translation:

1.All the sheep are not in the pasture

2.The last horse has left the barn

3.The card is in the ATM but there is no money in the account

4. All Indians are not in the tent

5.A really mesh bulkhead

6.Not the smartest cucumber in jar

7.Not all cows in the barn

8.It is not quite right upstairs furnished

9.It is wrong somewhere, but not in the knees

10.He did not drink all of which appear on the slopes

11.All hens are not at home

12.Not all Indians in the canoe

13.He does not have any cookies in the jar

14.The clock can not really around

15.Not all the cutlery in the drawer

16.Not all sandwiches in picknikkorgen

17.Not all bikes instead

18.He/she not have all the lights in the ramrod

19.He is not the coolest product in refrigerated display

20.Not all birds in the nest

21.Is not in the game

22.The tree is not up to the top

23.All plates are not in place in the cabinet

24.No larger study liabilities

25.Femöringen would probably have fallen

26.The book is open but the pages are blank

27.Not all sandwiches in the bag

28.The lift does not end up

29.The light is lit but no one is home

30.The wheel is spinning but the hamster is dead

31.Not the sharpest knife in place

32.The guy is dancing, but there is no music on

33.The engine is on, but no one is in the car

34.There are not many chips in the bag

35.It is not any horses in the stable

36.It is not shoveling up

37.Not all paddles in the water

38.Tomtar in the attic

39.A screw is loose

40.The coin have not really fallen

 

[Jackie London]

[YOUTUBE]yvMLV-LugK8&[/YOUTUBE]

http://mormonsmadesimple.com/

 

[jeane]

hey jackie, yes by 'historical racist aspect' i meant the implications for non-whites to become priests, the belief that africans could only enter heaven as slaves and that their dark skin was a mark of cain. i think it would be interesting to know if they actively recruit non-whites into the faith given the somewhat recent reformation.

did your ex ever feel pressured to convert people? i read on a blog, one mormon saying they are regularly reprimanded because their numbers were so low.

given that part of the duty of a mormon is to tithe, is there a financial incentive to convert?

sorry, i know it seems i am asking you these things as only a third party but anyone can answer.

 

[Jackie London]

hey jackie, yes by 'historical racist aspect' i meant the implications for non-whites to become priests, the belief that africans could only enter heaven as slaves and that their dark skin was a mark of cain. i think it would be interesting to know if they actively recruit non-whites into the faith given the somewhat recent reformation.

did your ex ever feel pressured to convert people? i read on a blog, one mormon saying they are regularly reprimanded because their numbers were so low.

given that part of the duty of a mormon is to tithe, is there a financial incentive to convert?

sorry, i know it seems i am asking you these things as only a third party but anyone can answer.

I've actually never heard before that they believed that non-whites could only enter the heaven as slaves. They do however believe that god did turn some peoples skin black as a sign of their sin, however since mormons don't believe that you inherit sin it has absolutely nothing to do with people today. They have missions in African today, just like in all other countries around the world. In my experience from Sweden, a lot of the converts are african. Sometimes I went to church with my ex and a lot of the people who had recently convert were african. I think my ex once said that in own congregation where he had served as a missionary they had had 19 converts during a year and 13 or them were people from Africa. I don't think however that they were trying to convert africans more then they tried to convert everyone else but for some reason their message seemed to appeal to africans. That's only what I heard from him and I'm not saying it's like that everywhere.
I can't really say if they get pressured to convert people, I think it's very different depending on where, who, how etc. In my ex-boyfriends case my impression was that they didn't really get pressured "from above" (missionpresident etc.) but among the missionaries (remember, it's mostly 19-21 year old boys we talk about now!) the once who converted a lot of people got rewarded with the respect of the other missionaries. I don't think however that there are any econimical interests involved, a least not for the missionaries. Yes, the converts pay 10% of their income to the church but the missionaries, the bishop, the missionpresident etc. never get any of that money. And remember that the missionaries pay for their mission themselves. I think my ex paid like 10 000 dollars for his mission plus living expenses for 2 years.

 

[Justus]

to argue about this is pointless. im mormon because it gives me joy and peace, nothing else has. this church speaks to me personally, i feel there is truth here. any of you interested to learn more check out the new mormon.org or pm me. otherwise good luck to you all on your searches.

 

[Amy]

I can't believe google made such a strange translation:

1.All the sheep are not in the pasture

2.The last horse has left the barn

3.The card is in the ATM but there is no money in the account

4. All Indians are not in the tent

5.A really mesh bulkhead

6.Not the smartest cucumber in jar

7.Not all cows in the barn

8.It is not quite right upstairs furnished

9.It is wrong somewhere, but not in the knees

10.He did not drink all of which appear on the slopes

11.All hens are not at home

12.Not all Indians in the canoe

13.He does not have any cookies in the jar

14.The clock can not really around

15.Not all the cutlery in the drawer

16.Not all sandwiches in picknikkorgen

17.Not all bikes instead

18.He/she not have all the lights in the ramrod

19.He is not the coolest product in refrigerated display

20.Not all birds in the nest

21.Is not in the game

22.The tree is not up to the top

23.All plates are not in place in the cabinet

24.No larger study liabilities

25.Femöringen would probably have fallen

26.The book is open but the pages are blank

27.Not all sandwiches in the bag

28.The lift does not end up

29.The light is lit but no one is home

30.The wheel is spinning but the hamster is dead

31.Not the sharpest knife in place

32.The guy is dancing, but there is no music on

33.The engine is on, but no one is in the car

34.There are not many chips in the bag

35.It is not any horses in the stable

36.It is not shoveling up

37.Not all paddles in the water

38.Tomtar in the attic

39.A screw is loose

40.The coin have not really fallen

What on earth?