Who do you think comes close to Morrissey as a great lyricist?

[Quando quando quando]

i propose we figure out all the people who he's giving good ratings too, and for each negative rating he gives us, give one to each of them too. you know, just to even things out. and if they have a problem with it, they can blame "biebs". you probably wont do it, you're too nice. but i just might.

Hi Rifke, good one.
But you can give me some negative ratings because I do have received 2 or maybe 3 positive ratings from Biebs, surprisingly so.
I wouldn't mind if you give me a negative rating now because I know it is part of the plan and you have never given me one.
If everybody starts doing it the whole rating system loses it's merit and I wouldn't mind.
I don't care about it any way.
Just to please you, ha.

 

[Calamine Lotion]

There probably are a lot of great lyricists out there, but what matters most (to me at least) is how do the words combine with the music? That, I believe, is what moves you, and makes someone's lyrics stand out.

That being said, while not a huge Pet Shop Boy fan, I can appreciate Neil Tennant's lyrics. At times, he can be equally, if not more witty than Morrissey.

Also, Thom Yorke, for me must be included. Although, I believe if you don't have any degree of mental illness, many of his lyrics will just seem like simple words on paper, but to the applicable audience, a lot of his lyrics make a ton of sense and hit home.

Agreed. I forgot Pet Shop Boys. Recently I discovered an old song by them written for their musical, Closer To Heaven.

This is kind of light compared to lots of their later songs but it's fun, tells a specific story, and lets you know about the character.

This one is one of my favorite recent Pet Shop Boys


And some people might laugh but New Order's lyrics are great because they are often so impressionistic that they can fit a personal situation precisely, when they actually mean something totally different if they mean anything at all.

 

[15minutes]

What criteria does anyone (or everyone) use for actually being able to measure what 'best lyrics' mean much less 'best lyricist'?

Also, speaking as a lonely and somewhat new voice on the forum, for me there's a difference between a) spoken words, b) written words that are witten to be sung specifically (as in pop music), and c) words on paper, e.g., free poetry meant to be just literally read to oneself or even aloud in a reading group (this is why I wouldn't go directly to lyrics but go to the written word as articulated by voice with music). I suppose if the question were narrowed down more to me it would make more sense. As it is, I can't help but see it as a potential rathole since there's no clear criteria for the participants to base an agreement or disagreement on. This is my subjective interpretation of the discussion and not meant to provoke argument or antagonize. I am not sure I can separate the lyrics themselvves from his beautiful vocal eloquence enough to do a fair comparison very easily with other artists just based on the actual words.

With that said, from a standpoint of written words written be the artist with the intent of being sung by the artist, the artists I have found among the most personally moving are for me, Morrissey and Lou Reed. I'm not sure, though, if I took boxes of lyrics and just read them to myself silently, if the impact would be the same apples to apples when contrasting Reed versus Morrissey versus ... artists a through n.

 

[Eder]

Morrissey is the best even if we only judge him on his time with The Smiths...
But second for me would be Mick Jagger. A brilliant and very underrated lyricist.

 

[Anonymous]

What criteria does anyone (or everyone) use for actually being able to measure what 'best lyrics' mean much less 'best lyricist'?

Also, speaking as a lonely and somewhat new voice on the forum, for me there's a difference between a) spoken words, b) written words that are witten to be sung specifically (as in pop music), and c) words on paper, e.g., free poetry meant to be just literally read to oneself or even aloud in a reading group (this is why I wouldn't go directly to lyrics but go to the written word as articulated by voice with music). I suppose if the question were narrowed down more to me it would make more sense. As it is, I can't help but see it as a potential rathole since there's no clear criteria for the participants to base an agreement or disagreement on. This is my subjective interpretation of the discussion and not meant to provoke argument or antagonize. I am not sure I can separate the lyrics themselvves from his beautiful vocal eloquence enough to do a fair comparison very easily with other artists just based on the actual words.

With that said, from a standpoint of written words written be the artist with the intent of being sung by the artist, the artists I have found among the most personally moving are for me, Morrissey and Lou Reed. I'm not sure, though, if I took boxes of lyrics and just read them to myself silently, if the impact would be the same apples to apples when contrasting Reed versus Morrissey versus ... artists a through n.

That's part of the fun of the conversation seeing how each decides why something is considered great

 

[Anonymous]

My favorite lyric of his can be heard on the fade out of 'Start me up' it's... 'You make a dead man come'. Brilliant !

That's actually nicked from "Shave 'Em Dry" by Lucille Bogan. Not sure how I'd rate her as a lyricist compared to Morrissey, if she even wrote it herself, but her songs are definitely interesting.

 

[15minutes]

That's part of the fun of the conversation seeing how each decides why something is considered great

Then why not have a thread to reflect that theme appropriately such as "what (for you) makes a great lyric/great lyricist, then list your faves & why?", for example =) What you described is not what is implied by the thread header but your own inference (which is fair given you stated what it meant to you - but that's different than what OP implied). Hopefully, I may someday soon be a "was redundant"although currently, I'd say I'm only 'round 50% =)

 

[Anonymous]

Then why not have a thread to reflect that theme appropriately such as "what (for you) makes a great lyric/great lyricist, then list your faves & why?", for example =) What you described is not what is implied by the thread header but your own inference (which is fair given you stated what it meant to you - but that's different than what OP implied). Hopefully, I may someday soon be a "was redundant"although currently, I'd say I'm only 'round 50% =)

I think the thread header vauge enough to infer it, that there's an expectation that people will explain why they think so and sos lyrics are as good. That this explanation will contain there parameters for a good lyric though if they don't and it doesnt I'm fine with that. If I'm curious I could always ask them with little effort. You could always start a better thread on the topic yourself with a more detailed and appropriate header and see how it does. I myself am satisfied with this one but I'm naturally, generally, pragmatic

 

[Quando quando quando]

Then why not have a thread to reflect that theme appropriately such as "what (for you) makes a great lyric/great lyricist, then list your faves & why?", for example =) What you described is not what is implied by the thread header but your own inference (which is fair given you stated what it meant to you - but that's different than what OP implied). Hopefully, I may someday soon be a "was redundant"although currently, I'd say I'm only 'round 50% =)

Create that thread!
Don't care too much about ratings like redundant or off-topic!
I like your posts

 

[15minutes]

I think the opportunity to discuss the Smiths' lyrical brilliance in a more focused manner will no doubt come again but I think, for now, creating a separate thread so soon after this one was started might create tension and possibly dilute both threads. My remarks were forward looking and there's a generic lesson there about creating threads that I hoped to offer. (I know how bad that probably sounds but I am at a loss of a better way to express myself ATM.)

 

[Calamine Lotion]

Then why not have a thread to reflect that theme appropriately such as "what (for you) makes a great lyric/great lyricist, then list your faves & why?", for example =) What you described is not what is implied by the thread header but your own inference (which is fair given you stated what it meant to you - but that's different than what OP implied). Hopefully, I may someday soon be a "was redundant"although currently, I'd say I'm only 'round 50% =)

This post needs a "dafuq" button because I don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Calamine Lotion]

What criteria does anyone (or everyone) use for actually being able to measure what 'best lyrics' mean much less 'best lyricist'?

Also, speaking as a lonely and somewhat new voice on the forum, for me there's a difference between a) spoken words, b) written words that are witten to be sung specifically (as in pop music), and c) words on paper, e.g., free poetry meant to be just literally read to oneself or even aloud in a reading group (this is why I wouldn't go directly to lyrics but go to the written word as articulated by voice with music). I suppose if the question were narrowed down more to me it would make more sense. As it is, I can't help but see it as a potential rathole since there's no clear criteria for the participants to base an agreement or disagreement on. This is my subjective interpretation of the discussion and not meant to provoke argument or antagonize. I am not sure I can separate the lyrics themselvves from his beautiful vocal eloquence enough to do a fair comparison very easily with other artists just based on the actual words.

With that said, from a standpoint of written words written be the artist with the intent of being sung by the artist, the artists I have found among the most personally moving are for me, Morrissey and Lou Reed. I'm not sure, though, if I took boxes of lyrics and just read them to myself silently, if the impact would be the same apples to apples when contrasting Reed versus Morrissey versus ... artists a through n.

This isn't really a serious discussion, though. It's flawed in the first place by taking place on Morrissey board. Nothing against Morrissey or his fans but people that think he is the greatest lyricist are going to have some bias.
I agree, though. Lou Reed is great.

 

[hand in glove]

k

Jesus Christ you are barrow

Try David Bowie , Ray Davis , Bryon Ferry , Leonard Cohen , Patti smith , Lou reed , chuck D , john lydon , mark e smith , joni Mitchell, Bob Dylan , Jim Morrison. I could go on and on. Morrissey hasn't been any good for 30 years, in terms of a lyric writer .

The only people who think Morrissey is "The best " are fags and hipsters

I like all the artists you listed there. Except Chuck D. I chose to list a few of the lyricists who really mean something to me. Not every single goddamn person who ever wrote a song I might have liked. I didn't mention Jagger and Richards or Lennon and McCartney, but I think they're brilliant and I have every album the Rolling Stones and The Beatles ever released. They're common, though - meaning everyone likes them. Just like every artist you listed, in fact. Pardon me for not being as commonplace as you'd like.

 

[caramel sea salt]

Agree with the posters above who mentioned Neil Tennant and John Grant.

Would like to add Nick Cave and Tom Waits, of course.

Brett Anderson has some superb lyrics but unfortunately some really shit ones, too.

 

[Eder]

hey, speaking of scumbags. Mick has written some great lyrics, not bad for a once aspiring accountant! My favorite lyric of his can be heard on the fade out of 'Start me up' it's... 'You make a dead man come'. Brilliant !

yes, all the late 60's to late 70's Stones, fun stuff.

Jagger is still an accountant ! Money is the only thing he seems to care about...
But during the stones golden era from lets say 1965 - 1977 i thought he wrote top notch and intelligent lyrics consistently...



'

 

[Anonymous]

We won't forget Lloyd Cole !!!A brilliant lyricist

 

[Layne]

Bruce Springsteen

Bruce is a bought-and-sold establishment political puppet.

 

[Layne]

Leonard Cohen is by far—BY FAR—the greatest lyricist ever.

"The Future" (the song) in particular describes for us exactly what is happening in the world today and what we're in for. Cohen wasn't just blowing hot air with his prophetic and apocalyptic-themed lyrics; he's been well aware of the "killers in high places." Look deeper and Cohen warns us about the loss of spirituality, the threat of the new world order, and the emptiness that an unenlightened society holds.

 

[Layne]

leonard cohen for sure. i dont understand why people are so impressed with lyrics though. i mean, obviously some people write better lyrics than others, but to go so far as to call some lyrics genius is a bit much. how hard can it be to write great lyrics? it seems to me that lyric writing would be the easiest kind of writing around. to say that someone who writes great lyrics is like a keats is patently absurd.

Mostly agreed. Cohen is just on a different level though.

Morrissey at his best is also very unique and must be top 5—but don't quote me on that because I haven't really thought to hammer out a solid list. But objectively, Morrissey at his best is one of the wittiest lyricists of all time. He manages to be rather Wildean but in an original way.

 

[nicky wire's legs]

Mostly agreed. Cohen is just on a different level though.

Morrissey at his best is also very unique and must be top 5—but don't quote me on that because I haven't really thought to hammer out a solid list. But objectively, Morrissey at his best is one of the wittiest lyricists of all time. He manages to be rather Wildean but in an original way.

yes, well i think that morrissey is similar to oscar in the way that his genius lies not so much in his writing (although he's a brilliant writer, dont get me wrong): his genius, like oscar's, lies in his personality, and the way he manages to channel it into his writing.

as for cohen lyrics, take this waltz, and famous blue raincoat are my favourites. <3