D
Deleted member 1074
Guest
Look, I do not like what you are implying. I have not used probes of any sort in years. I much prefer small rodents.
Yeah, you and the Beastmaster...
Look, I do not like what you are implying. I have not used probes of any sort in years. I much prefer small rodents.
Yeah, but you see he's doing it all wrong. The creature won't find it's own way. You have to show it the tradesmans entrance!Yeah, you and the Beastmaster...
Yeah, but you see he's doing it all wrong. The creature won't find it's own way. You have to show it the tradesmans entrance!
I wasn't insulting you. I was f***ing with you. There's a difference. I was simply saying you need to not be so sensitive if you are gonna participate in this. There are some right bastards 'round these parts. Unfortunately a lot of them are also the best posters, but that's another matter.
Anyway...
I like how you lob the term "oh well it's the internet" about as though this is some magical silly storybook and we're all just plasticine dolls on a child's dresser.
The fact that this forum is an internet forum doesn't make it any less real, or any less imbued with individual inputs from flesh and blood people with body parts and lives and feelings and thoughts and memories and all that good stuff.
It's a forum, a forum is a place where thoughts are expressed, thoughts come from people, people are real.
Don't let the glowing glass box in front of you fool you; this place is as "real" as you want it to be. Just because these individuals discussing things with you aren't literally in the same room, at the same table, doesn't make things any less tangible or valid. Anyone who says otherwise is over the age of 50.
Some of us are on opposite ends of the world from each other; twenty years ago this would have been impossible. But oh, science and oh, technology and oh, human perseverance...we have overcome distance and separation.
The illusion of disconnection is just that: an illusion. If you get hung up on the people here being too far away to consider real, well, that's your fantasy, not reality.
Listen to Allen Ginsberg! He can explain it much better than I can.
No, you're wrong. (I'm shocked...let me sit down.)
If you'd actually watched the clip, and listened (a daunting task at a whopping minute and twenty seconds, I know) you'd see that he is saying not to be fooled by the hardware, because the essence -two people communicating- is the tangible factor; not the medium connecting them.
Secondly, go to the Six Gallery in 1955, throw some coins in Jack's wine collection jar, then listen to Allen read Howl for the first time, watch a literary movement be born, and then come back qualified to tell me how Allen doesn't explain himself very well.
Oh, baby, you're hitting me with a lot of great shit right now. Unfortunately, I have children to attend to. Let me get them to bed, open a six pack, and I'll happily be back.
That's what the media does when it's afraid of you...it tries to turn you into a cartoon.
It's a piss-poor cartoon; the bottle is still full, and he has webbed fingers. But hey, it's better than using actual words, right?
Oh, I'm sorry. I was under the impression I was allowed to debate a post expressed in my direction. Are you scared that some big words might be bandied about? You know how we "psuedo" intellectuals are...in addition to our knack for proper spelling.
I think you're convoluting things before you even get out of the door. How can "hardware" not be real?
Secondly, he was not referring to the hardware or the medium as "unreal"...he was referring to the concept of getting fixated on a transient medium as opposed to the act of interpersonal communication. But wait...
It's almost like you're intentionally swerving out of the way to avoid the point.
I wasn't under the impression anyone questioned anyone's reality of being.
A YouTube clip, or a phone call, or a Skype, or a news broadcast, or a text message is two-way communication. There is a sender and recipient (in the case of a YouTube clip, radio broadcast, etc) and if it is a phone call or a video chat or something, then both parties are senders/recipients. I wasn't saying that either the Ginsberg clip was an example of mutually reciprocal communication, or at least not the way a forum is, or even a phone call or a letter. I cited it simply to better explain my original point, which was that Peterb saying "oh well, it's the internet," i.e., "it doesn't matter, nothing is real here, so anything goes, it's la-la land" was not only a cop-out but a significant underestimation of this place, or any forum. But you can take it out of this spectrum and translate it to chatrooms, YouTube, Skype, whatever....
Back in 1968 or whenever the hell Ginsberg filmed that, there was obviously no internet. He was making a film or a broadcast, or whatever. But his point is still applicable...that in his communicating to the viewer, the viewer should not get disillusioned by the medium, but focus on the message and the act of communication.
You're right and you're wrong; moreso the latter. He was saying the screen was not the final reality. In other words, he was imploring the recipient not to get fixated on the form of communication, but the communication itself, as an act of valid human expression. He was using the term "imagine" in the sense of "picture things, understand things in your mind and see how they are" rather than "imagine" the way a novelist imagines a character or a little child makes up an action-figure battle.
Yes, it is. Only a fool would say that a forum is the same thing as a debate class, or a gathering of friends at the bar or something, but that doesn't make the internet any less of a reality than those things are.
When you play a Morrissey record, do you really think Morrissey is in the room singing to you? No...(unless you're Crystal Geezer.) The literal reality is that you are listening to a technologically manipulated sound recording of a moment (or series of moments, actually, glued together) that happened once and which you are taking advantage of being able to reproduce at will because of a piece of plastic you own, or not even, maybe just a digital series of numbered data that a computer translates into musical sound. But does that make it any less meaningful to you? Does that diminish the art? Of course not....because the message, the expression, the communication is what matters. The medium is always secondary to the message.
That's an arbitrary assessment. Sure, people can create facades online, but they can do that in real life, too. And they often do, sometimes much more profoundly than they do online. So the point becomes moot when applied here.
At least online, as opposed to in person, there's an element of anonymity. A great tool of control, so a person can meter out the personality displayed. And what happens then, ironically, when you provide a mask? You get the real person. Obviously there are exceptions, but think about that.
No. You're wrong. It's "take the film as an image with a grain of salt rather than as a final reality so that you don't get deceived" i.e. "take the medium as an unimportant vehicle conveying the real point. It is an imagined finality, but it is a temporarily necessary reality used to traffic the cargo of eternal human communication."
There is no "qualification"...going out of your way to justify yourself only betrays your underlying sense of indecisiveness regarding your stance. I am happy you are into Beat culture, but that doesn't make your opinion on this subject any more or less valid in my eyes.
And obviously that night wasn't really the "birth of the movement"; that was sarcastic hyperbole. There was no movement. There was no "movement"...that's a retroactive media creation to sell books. I think it was Gregory Corso who said, "the Beat Generation was basically three people...and a generation isn't three people."
And the daddy-o thing...that's a joke. That's a lot of Hollywood bullshit. Those assholes that talked that way and wore the fag berets and played bongos and all that...I mean, that's just afterbirth. That was cultural dysentery, as far as I'm concerned. The media trying to comedicize something it didn't understand and didn't want to acknowledge.
That's what the media does when it's afraid of you...it tries to turn you into a cartoon.
He looks great, he sounds fantastic, and he's chosen this opportunity to showcase his least interesting new song.
Morrissey's seemingly endless capacity for musical perversity continues to astonish.
I wasn't insulting you. I was f***ing with you. There's a difference. I was simply saying you need to not be so sensitive if you are gonna participate in this. There are some right bastards 'round these parts. Unfortunately a lot of them are also the best posters, but that's another matter.
Anyway...
I like how you lob the term "oh well it's the internet" about as though this is some magical silly storybook and we're all just plasticine dolls on a child's dresser.
The fact that this forum is an internet forum doesn't make it any less real, or any less imbued with individual inputs from flesh and blood people with body parts and lives and feelings and thoughts and memories and all that good stuff.
It's a forum, a forum is a place where thoughts are expressed, thoughts come from people, people are real.
Don't let the glowing glass box in front of you fool you; this place is as "real" as you want it to be. Just because these individuals discussing things with you aren't literally in the same room, at the same table, doesn't make things any less tangible or valid. Anyone who says otherwise is over the age of 50.
Some of us are on opposite ends of the world from each other; twenty years ago this would have been impossible. But oh, science and oh, technology and oh, human perseverance...we have overcome distance and separation.
The illusion of disconnection is just that: an illusion. If you get hung up on the people here being too far away to consider real, well, that's your fantasy, not reality.
Listen to Allen Ginsberg! He can explain it much better than I can.