Ringleader and Refusal?

[Scarlet1987]

This is one of those questions that go around in ones head and never really get answered so I just wanted to get peoples opinion on the subject.

With Ringleader of the Tormentors Morrissey basically said that he was having sex and some kind of relationships and that he was finally 'Born'.

Now with Refusal I get the impression that he's back to his usual self yearning for love and telling everyone that he's Ok By Himself.

Now was it that whilst recording Ringleader he was indeed happy and getting fulfillment from life and sang about it?

So why is Refusal the complete opposite?

Could it be that he just made Refusal in his usual writing style and it's not really the truth?


If you don't get what I'm on about, well I don't think I've explained it that well.

So is refusal bullshit hollow lyrics? Or is he back to being his lonely old self?

 

[Girl-with-the-Thorn]

I've thought about this a few times also.

To me at least, the contrast between ROTT and YOR is that it shows a fluctuation of emotion, but not necessarily circumstances. ROTT seems to be more about an emotional realisation expressed in the lyrics than anything concrete. I believe him when he says from that time onwards he felt a lot happier and more fulfilled, however it could be that at the time of writing the lyrics for YOR he was reflecting either on things that had recently and briefly happened, or on emotions from the past. After all, tracks such as 'That's How People Grow Up' and 'I'm OK By Myself' express a similar- perhaps even greater- acceptance and sense of freedom to that found in many songs on Ringleader.

I hope what I just typed makes sense, I spent ages trying to get my more abstract ideas down in the clearest way possible, but I may not have succeeded.

 

[Scarlet1987]

I've thought about this a few times also.

To me at least, the contrast between ROTT and YOR is that it shows a fluctuation of emotion, but not necessarily circumstances. ROTT seems to be more about an emotional realisation expressed in the lyrics than anything concrete. I believe him when he says from that time onwards he felt a lot happier and more fulfilled, however it could be that at the time of writing the lyrics for YOR he was reflecting either on things that had recently and briefly happened, or on emotions from the past. After all, tracks such as 'That's How People Grow Up' and 'I'm OK By Myself' express a similar- perhaps even greater- acceptance and sense of freedom to that found in many songs on Ringleader.

I hope what I just typed makes sense, I spent ages trying to get my more abstract ideas down in the clearest way possible, but I may not have succeeded.

Very well put darl, I agree with you. Actually thinking about it, the difference between YOR, ROTT AND Quarry are vast.

I'm stil unsure though, on YOR he could be talking about previous feelings experience etc......or maybe it's his last album and he's telling us how it is.

 

[Skinner]

He was getting some while recording Ringleader, that's a given.

Now a days, he is either no longer getting any, or he realized it was too out of character to seem to "happy/in love" etc, so he is now refusing to admitt that he is getting any.

Bottom line, he can say whatever he wants to who ever he wants, if he wants a piece (and obviously he does), he can get; very easily.

 

[CrookedLittleVein]

He was getting some while recording Ringleader, that's a given.

Now a days, he is either no longer getting any, or he realized it was too out of character to seem to "happy/in love" etc, so he is now refusing to admitt that he is getting any.

Bottom line, he can say whatever he wants to who ever he wants, if he wants a piece (and obviously he does), he can get; very easily.

You old romantic, you...

 

[Vauxhall95]

So is refusal bullshit hollow lyrics?

No comment...

 

[Skinner]

You old romantic, you...

Oh of course.

 

[nowherefast944]

could be the result of a nasty breakup.

 

[joe frady]

No comment...

Go on, y'know y'wanna

 

[Vauxhall95]

Go on, y'know y'wanna

Stop baiting me, because ya, I want to!