"Kiss Me A Lot" = a smash hit that never was

Vegan

Well-Known Member
What a shame. I think musically/melodically (lightweight lyrically) KMAL ranks in Moz's top 15 recordings.

Are his chart days behind him? It happens to everyone sooner or later. Of course charts do not reflect quality but it's still cool to see one of your faves hit the charts.

The album, WPINOYB, is as good as anything he's over done. I love it.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
What a shame. I think musically/melodically (lightweight lyrically) KMAL ranks in Moz's top 15 recordings.

Are his chart days behind him? It happens to everyone sooner or later. Of course charts do not reflect quality but it's still cool to see one of your faves hit the charts.

The album, WPINOYB, is as good as anything he's over done. I love it.
given that this is the top 100 in the us i cant imagine where he would fit in. there is not anything on there that i would buy suggesting to me the we as moz fans are probalyn out of touch with charts, at least singles charts. the nature of singles has also just changed as the radio doesnt mean anything to me and havnt listen to it i dont know how long. gotta be over a decade and a half. everything thats worthwhile is so niche now that its hard to imagine it charting as a single
 

Derek17

Well-Known Member
What a shame. I think musically/melodically (lightweight lyrically) KMAL ranks in Moz's top 15 recordings.

Are his chart days behind him? It happens to everyone sooner or later. Of course charts do not reflect quality but it's still cool to see one of your faves hit the charts.

The album, WPINOYB, is as good as anything he's over done. I love it.
Larry King liked it though.
 

mcrickson

Reckless Endangerment
I still say if he'd have released "It's Not Your Birthday Anymore" as a single and had a strong video to go with it, that would've been a charting single - not because it's a particularly subtle song in the vein of "Vauxhall," but because it's basically an early Coldplay song with a maudlin-Morrissey twist, which is what would sell for him. Honestly, Jerry Finn was probably his best bet for a chart-friendly radio single.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I still say if he'd have released "It's Not Your Birthday Anymore" as a single and had a strong video to go with it, that would've been a charting single - not because it's a particularly subtle song in the vein of "Vauxhall," but because it's basically an early Coldplay song with a maudlin-Morrissey twist, which is what would sell for him. Honestly, Jerry Finn was probably his best bet for a chart-friendly radio single.
Finn is great. Well at least he was sadly but I don't know how much hed be able to influence the songs. I don't think they dont get radio play because of the production which I thought was great on world.peace. also do videos have much impact these days on sales. J mean I love them and sure they attract some attention for fans but where would a person unaware of mos even see them these days. Still good to attract attention from the base but I guess I just dont know how much reach they have to the general not already looking for it public
 

dotmatrix522

Hey, how’s it going?
I still say if he'd have released "It's Not Your Birthday Anymore" as a single and had a strong video to go with it, that would've been a charting single - not because it's a particularly subtle song in the vein of "Vauxhall," but because it's basically an early Coldplay song with a maudlin-Morrissey twist, which is what would sell for him. Honestly, Jerry Finn was probably his best bet for a chart-friendly radio single.
I never would have described "INYBA" like that, but now that you did, I can almost see what you mean. It could definitely have done well on the modern rock charts as a single. I found it odd that he's never played that one live very often either. (IIRC only once or maybe twice?)
 

mcrickson

Reckless Endangerment
Finn is great. Well at least he was sadly but I don't know how much hed be able to influence the songs. I don't think they dont get radio play because of the production which I thought was great on world.peace. also do videos have much impact these days on sales. J mean I love them and sure they attract some attention for fans but where would a person unaware of mos even see them these days. Still good to attract attention from the base but I guess I just dont know how much reach they have to the general not already looking for it public
I'd say production style certainly influences the way a track performs sales-wise. I suppose my point was that Finn's production on Morrissey's songs led to more radio-friendly results. And yeah, I guess videos are less important than they used to be. But it certainly couldn't have hurt and would have made him much more visible.

I never would have described "INYBA" like that, but now that you did, I can almost see what you mean. It could definitely have done well on the modern rock charts as a single. I found it odd that he's never played that one live very often either. (IIRC only once or maybe twice?)
Once, in DC I believe. And presumably never again because he had trouble maintaining stamina/reaching the high notes. Which I could never understand, as when "Skull" was released as a single, the band played the song tuned some steps down so that he wouldn't throw his voice out trying to reach notes in that song. Could've easily been done with "Birthday."
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I'd say production style certainly influences the way a track performs sales-wise. I suppose my point was that Finn's production on Morrissey's songs led to more radio-friendly results. And yeah, I guess videos are less important than they used to be. But it certainly couldn't have hurt and would have made him much more visible.



Once, in DC I believe. And presumably never again because he had trouble maintaining stamina/reaching the high notes. Which I could never understand, as when "Skull" was released as a single, the band played the song tuned some steps down so that he wouldn't throw his voice out trying to reach notes in that song. Could've easily been done with "Birthday."
i guess i dont see much difference in the production from finn vs the production from joe. i do think the album finn worked on meaning quarry was played a bunch as it also corresponded with his come back from a long absence which is a draw all its own. refusal didnt get that much radio single airplay and was produced by him as well. also joes got a nice list of radio friendly acts as well so i just cant see how the productions thats different between the albums. if anything refusals i think was much rawer, relatively (i mean this is morrissey and not jawbreaker), than world peaces
 

mcrickson

Reckless Endangerment
i guess i dont see much difference in the production from finn vs the production from joe. i do think the album finn worked on meaning quarry was played a bunch as it also corresponded with his come back from a long absence which is a draw all its own. refusal didnt get that much radio single airplay and was produced by him as well. also joes got a nice list of radio friendly acts as well so i just cant see how the productions thats different between the albums. if anything refusals i think was much rawer, relatively (i mean this is morrissey and not jawbreaker), than world peaces
In terms of Morrissey songs, if he were to be looking for a chart hit, my view is that he'd do better with a "pop-punk" producer along the lines of Finn was rather than the more lush, spacious sound that we heard on "World Peace." That's not to devalue Finn's work in any way - that sound just seems to be more commercially popular for someone like Morrissey, and the lack of Refusal airplay was in my opinion due to the singles selected.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
In terms of Morrissey songs, if he were to be looking for a chart hit, my view is that he'd do better with a "pop-punk" producer along the lines of Finn was rather than the more lush, spacious sound that we heard on "World Peace." That's not to devalue Finn's work in any way - that sound just seems to be more commercially popular for someone like Morrissey, and the lack of Refusal airplay was in my opinion due to the singles selected.
your stiull not saying what about the production was different and just because finn was a pop punk producer a sound he brought much more so to refusal than quarry though refusal got much less airplay than quarry he also did a lot of non punk albums that were super successful such as the goo goo dolls a boy named goo which is in no way a pop punk album despite there wish to think of themselves as a punk band. name was the big hit there, then big single, and its an acoustic lush song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQOBUrRaPU0&index=1&list=PLWiznzQ48sEL40umNigphwCdTbrHxBkuf . just to name another fastball, also produced by finn and a success, is not a pop punk album. eisley is a dream pop act that didnt do well despite his lush production there and madness is a ska band. mathew sweet also doesnt strike me as a pop punk act that got pretty well known.

also to refute the idea that world peace is nothing but a lush album rather than an album with lush songs, the songwriters choice and not the producers, neil cassidy is pretty crunchy
 

mcrickson

Reckless Endangerment
your stiull not saying what about the production was different and just because finn was a pop punk producer a sound he brought much more so to refusal than quarry though refusal got much less airplay than quarry he also did a lot of non punk albums that were super successful such as the goo goo dolls a boy named goo which is in no way a pop punk album despite there wish to think of themselves as a punk band. name was the big hit there, then big single, and its an acoustic lush song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQOBUrRaPU0&index=1&list=PLWiznzQ48sEL40umNigphwCdTbrHxBkuf . just to name another fastball, also produced by finn and a success, is not a pop punk album. eisley is a dream pop act that didnt do well despite his lush production there and madness is a ska band. mathew sweet also doesnt strike me as a pop punk act that got pretty well known.

also to refute the idea that world peace is nothing but a lush album rather than an album with lush songs, the songwriters choice and not the producers, neil cassidy is pretty crunchy
This post was a bastard to read. At no point did I say that the production is the sole decider in whether a single will chart well; this is evident in Quarry doing better than Refusal. Not only was it his comeback album, but comparatively, the singles from Quarry were stronger pop compositions than the singles from Refusal. Obviously the composition plays a significant part of the role in determining how a release is received by the buying public; but a producer's preferred style also plays a role. That was my whole point.

I never said "lush productions" couldn't be well-received, what I said was that Finn's style was more along the lines of what was commercially popular at the time - moreso Quarry than Refusal, but my original point was that "Birthday" would have been a high-charting radio-friendly single.

And surely you can tell a difference between the production in "Neal Cassady" and the production in "Skull." Miles apart. Just because there is distortion on the guitar doesn't mean the production can't have width and nuance. If you can't tell that there is a significant difference between Finn's and Chiccarelli's styles, this is a pretty pointless conversation.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
This post was a bastard to read. At no point did I say that the production is the sole decider in whether a single will chart well; this is evident in Quarry doing better than Refusal. Not only was it his comeback album, but comparatively, the singles from Quarry were stronger pop compositions than the singles from Refusal. Obviously the composition plays a significant part of the role in determining how a release is received by the buying public; but a producer's preferred style also plays a role. That was my whole point.

I never said "lush productions" couldn't be well-received, what I said was that Finn's style was more along the lines of what was commercially popular at the time - moreso Quarry than Refusal, but my original point was that "Birthday" would have been a high-charting radio-friendly single.

And surely you can tell a difference between the production in "Neal Cassady" and the production in "Skull." Miles apart. Just because there is distortion on the guitar doesn't mean the production can't have width and nuance. If you can't tell that there is a significant difference between Finn's and Chiccarelli's styles, this is a pretty pointless conversation.
well why dont you point out what they are specifically, those differences. im all ears though i suspect youll say its pointless and dodge or that you cant decipher the post. you did say that he needed a pop punk producer though i cant see how anything on quarry sounds like pop punk though i can on the less well received refusal as many reviews mentioned skull as being styled and recorded like a pop punk song. you cited the lush more spacious sound on world peace as an example and i countered with the super compressed to the red neil cassidy. you said finns radio styled production leads to influence a song sales wise but whats on the radio and who listens to the radio as if that has anything to do with a singles sales past the year twenty ten and im being generous there. you said or very strongly infered world peace songs dont do well because of more lush and spacious sounds production but the song i gave a link to "name" is lush and spacious and was a hit when people actually did listen to the radio. theres not to much difference in the production that any general music fan call tell or care about between finns work and joes. finn did two albums and one did better than the other. was this do to changes in the mans production. did he make refusal less radio friendly. what did joe do to make things less radios friendly as honestly joes production is better. almost everything written about the review found no fault in the production and was always cited as a silver lining in the more middle of the road reviews of the album. if you cant point out what specifically is the difference why should i or anyone believe your claim or give it any merit. id be fine to discuss the topic but im guessing that you dont have any interest in that and would rather make a very vauge statement and then run from any questions
 
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Anonymous

Guest
'Kiss Me A Lot'? Musically it sounds like a throwaway B-side, and lyrically it is shallow, and says nothing to me about my life. Chuck it in the bin.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
This post was a bastard to read. At no point did I say that the production is the sole decider in whether a single will chart well; this is evident in Quarry doing better than Refusal. Not only was it his comeback album, but comparatively, the singles from Quarry were stronger pop compositions than the singles from Refusal. Obviously the composition plays a significant part of the role in determining how a release is received by the buying public; but a producer's preferred style also plays a role. That was my whole point.

I never said "lush productions" couldn't be well-received, what I said was that Finn's style was more along the lines of what was commercially popular at the time - moreso Quarry than Refusal, but my original point was that "Birthday" would have been a high-charting radio-friendly single.

And surely you can tell a difference between the production in "Neal Cassady" and the production in "Skull." Miles apart. Just because there is distortion on the guitar doesn't mean the production can't have width and nuance. If you can't tell that there is a significant difference between Finn's and Chiccarelli's styles, this is a pretty pointless conversation.
well i replied to you but i dont know if they wanna post it. ill wait a bit i guess
 
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Anonymous

Guest
'Kiss Me A Lot'? Musically it sounds like a throwaway B-side, and lyrically it is shallow, and says nothing to me about my life. Chuck it in the bin.
i thought it cute to those who like film and characters. also the music was great with the horn and the shout and whisper. very catchy but i dont think anything was gonna be a chart single in this day and age. the singes chart isnt even what it was when ringleader was released. if he were looking for a chart hit, and im being honest here as always, he should do an electro pop song. i dont think he should look for a chart single sound but thatd be it
 

messengers

New Member
Sorry to be negative, but Morrissey is pretty far from making smash hits right now, miles away from his creative and commercial peak, and to my ears the song is mediocre musically and weak lyrically compared to top Morrissey, let alone top Smiths, so this is definitely no smash hit in my ears.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Sorry to be negative, but Morrissey is pretty far from making smash hits right now, miles away from his creative and commercial peak, and to my ears the song is mediocre musically and weak lyrically compared to top Morrissey, let alone top Smiths, so this is definitely no smash hit in my ears.
what do you think the songs about. you dont have to say sorry, you can have your opinions and seemed nice enough even if i disagree. i dont think anything from vauxhal would be a "radio" (so old fashioned) single these days. last really big one was first of the gang to die and part of that was i think do to interest in the comeback of an icon as well as it fitting in more was with the keyboard style of music that dominates todays youth culture. also a catchy song but many songs are ctachy that dont make it anywhere near charts
 
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