Juan Dulces
I just see trees.
Right on! Dagenham Dave really rocks too.
Kill Uncle and Southpaw Grammar - what ifs
- Thread starter Dazza
- Start date
Right on! Dagenham Dave really rocks too.
ZOOM FROM GLOOM
LASCIATE OGNI SPERANZA!
Yes. Subjective.
But I wouldn’t compare, or use Bowie’s worst singles from ‘Tonight’ in the same way you use Morrissey’s Dagenham Dave. Morrissey has never gone that commercial, or will do a Glass Spiders tour, anytime soon. And if he did, it would be canceled anyway. lol.
Edit: I do know what you mean, but the NME etc probably just wanted fresh blood by that point, regardless of what Morrissey had to offer.
Anyway, as ‘low’ as Morrissey goes, he never
will go this low ….
Last edited:
ZOOM FROM GLOOM
LASCIATE OGNI SPERANZA!
strange running order.
MoneyChangesEverything
"Why Don't You Find Out For Yourself?"
Not really - frontloads Side A with livelier songs, moves into a slower end of the side, then the last five all address Moz's relationship obsession at the time from a I Want The One I Can't Have to I'm Going To Die Alone And Unloved conclusion. Also the endings of most songs flow nicely into the next one.
M
Musician
Guest
In my opinion he did go this low - just other ways
Juan Dulces
I just see trees.
I love SG. The collection of songs isn't perfect, but it's the way it was done that makes it special. Morrissey made it all about the music, supposedly recording the vocals while having bronchitis too. The opener and closer are staples in his songbook and are very experimental musically for him. It's a great Morrissey record which just has its own flow and expectations, and I've been very fond of it since '95.
I like Kill Uncle. For me, the worst thing about it is the production quality - too glossy, too much 'early 90s' pop. That kind of production usually leads to great sounding vocals (which KU absolutely has) but thinner sounding music (it has that too). This LP was musically experimental too, in a fun yet frivolous/Galloping Gourmet kind of way. Truthfully, I don't think it's regarded as a 'serious' album. It does have some good early Morrissey solo songs, and he was right around the corner from forming his first real 'solo' band (which the major components of endured for many years/albums to come) and creating more complete songs.
I like Kill Uncle. For me, the worst thing about it is the production quality - too glossy, too much 'early 90s' pop. That kind of production usually leads to great sounding vocals (which KU absolutely has) but thinner sounding music (it has that too). This LP was musically experimental too, in a fun yet frivolous/Galloping Gourmet kind of way. Truthfully, I don't think it's regarded as a 'serious' album. It does have some good early Morrissey solo songs, and he was right around the corner from forming his first real 'solo' band (which the major components of endured for many years/albums to come) and creating more complete songs.
Last edited:
ZOOM FROM GLOOM
LASCIATE OGNI SPERANZA!
yeah, it’s awful. I wish he were perfect too.
sparacus
Member
Both albums are below par and ‘Kill Uncle’ in particular is poor. At a time when Morrissey needed to follow up ‘Viva Hate’ and his string of eccentric singles with a strong solo album, he delivered a paltry collection of weak songs with poor melodies, dull musicianship and some dire lyrics. ‘King Leer’ is terrible. As for ‘Southpaw Grammar’, well it’s the pinnacle of his daft phase of trying to reinvent himself as an East End hardman rather than his prior image as a bespectacled, Mancunian Library nerd, too sensitive for the world. The songs are variable and the dreadful orange cover with a boxer on it sums up the whole sorry mess.
Phranc & Open
Dreaming from the past
The topic of Boxers and Southpaw was also very piquant. His passion for tough guys, fighting spirit and his fake scars made him very vulnerable, even if the press didn't really pick up on it.
SuedeMoz
Well-Known Member
Thanks... I was trying to find that quote. It's a shame that Kill Uncle never got the proper reworking Mark Nevin envisioned. Who knows what might have been?
Jamie
Bluff, Ardour & Assoc.
I think "reinvent" is perhaps too strong a word - he seemed to be exploring other personas throughout the Nineties. His wardrobe changes at the time felt like signal points. You had the head-on collision of glam with rockabilly in 1991-1992, with the diaphanous shirts and vintage rolled jeans. 1994-1995 was the Ben Sherman period, with bespoke jackets rounding out the look. I refer to the short quiff and "smart" combos of 1997 as his "funny uncle" phase. He ended the decade with a dressed-down version of the Ben Sherman period with the camp sailor suit and vinyl suit thrown in as a lark. The latter, I know, was intended to be redolent of the Elvis Presley "Comeback Special" suit - but, by my lights, it was Vince Taylor sans gloves.
But, in short, it seemed less like reinvention than channeling different aspects of his personality and abiding passions.
goinghome
you must not tamper with arrangements
Posted elsewhere, but in case you missed it, Mark Reed's analysis of Kill Uncle is scarily involved. I suspect he'll give later albums similar treatment but without the same love, fearing he's the sort whose disappointment with the usual cliches about Morrissey may be as all-consuming as his earlier fanaticism clearly was -
Also, hot off the press is this neat little item by local El Paso radio station KLAQ 95.5 FM, Morrissey Forever Immortalized El Paso Inside One of his Albums. It celebrates Morrissey's use of many places in the area for Southpaw Grammar artwork, and includes many photos
- https://klaq.com/morrissey-album-el-paso-photos/
Also, hot off the press is this neat little item by local El Paso radio station KLAQ 95.5 FM, Morrissey Forever Immortalized El Paso Inside One of his Albums. It celebrates Morrissey's use of many places in the area for Southpaw Grammar artwork, and includes many photos
- https://klaq.com/morrissey-album-el-paso-photos/
markreed
Member
"Here I Am! Here I Am!
You don't need to look so pleased."
I'm not a vast fan of the post Alain work, but I will try to steer clear of too much negativity.
Juan Dulces
I just see trees.
Oh yeah, LOVE the guitars on the whole LP.
bored
not bitter but bored
Yeah.. he said when he felt like what was released as an album was a good set of demos. The problem is that even if they spent another month on Kill Uncle the songs just aren't that good lyrically. There are a few songs I like but there are a lot of songs that are so unmemorable I can't name them.
Skylarker
People come second, or possibly third.
I love Kill Uncle. It's always gonna be a favorite. Is it his most exciting album? No. Has it aged well? I don't know. It didn't sound like anything he had done yet, or like anything that anyone else was doing. But Morrissey has never sounded like he was even remotely attached to anything else happening concurrently. Anyway it's hard to date that album; and it;s hard to be objective. It was such an exciting time in his career and in general, with alternative music, there was SO much great stuff happening back then. Those really were the halcyon days.
I wish it included The Loop as it's opener, because lyrically it really suited what was going on with him. Then Our Frank. Wouldn't change much else except I'd probably ditch Camera Eye....it's such a weird song and while I think the lyrics are great and his voice is sublime, it just kind of stays stuck in oddball status, very much like The Secret Of Music many years later. I think I'd absolutely have added Tony The Pony, one of the best songs he's ever done. And probably Journalists Who Lie, because it has such a weird energy to it.
Southpaw Grammar...hard to believe this record was made by the same guy. It's such a hurricane of sound and experimentation and sure, there's an element of bombast to some of the musically adventurous sections, but so what? He was stretching his legs. The band was a codified entity at that point and they were seeing what they could do. It sounds great.
I'd have added Nobody Loves Us and You Should Have Been Nice To Me. And probably Honey, You Know Where To Find Me. No question about it. Definitely agree with other posters here who disagree with the OP's suggestion that Boxers should have been on it. Yeah, same basic era, but it sounds NOTHING like the Southpaw Grammar material. Belongs much more to the Vauxhall sound/era.
Suggested Kill Uncle revision:
A) The Loop / Our Frank / Asian Rut / Mute Witness / Found Found Found / I'm The End Of The Family Line
B) Sing Your Life / King Leer / Journalists Who Lie / There's A Place In Hell For Me And My Friends / Tony The Pony
Suggested Southpaw Grammar revision:
A) The Teachers Are Afraid Of The Pupils / Nobody Loves Us / Reader Meet Author / Do Your Best And Don't Worry / You Should Have Been Nice To Me
B) The Operation / The Boy Racer / Best Friend On The Payroll / Dagenham Dave / Honey, You Know Where To Find Me / Southpaw
I wish it included The Loop as it's opener, because lyrically it really suited what was going on with him. Then Our Frank. Wouldn't change much else except I'd probably ditch Camera Eye....it's such a weird song and while I think the lyrics are great and his voice is sublime, it just kind of stays stuck in oddball status, very much like The Secret Of Music many years later. I think I'd absolutely have added Tony The Pony, one of the best songs he's ever done. And probably Journalists Who Lie, because it has such a weird energy to it.
Southpaw Grammar...hard to believe this record was made by the same guy. It's such a hurricane of sound and experimentation and sure, there's an element of bombast to some of the musically adventurous sections, but so what? He was stretching his legs. The band was a codified entity at that point and they were seeing what they could do. It sounds great.
I'd have added Nobody Loves Us and You Should Have Been Nice To Me. And probably Honey, You Know Where To Find Me. No question about it. Definitely agree with other posters here who disagree with the OP's suggestion that Boxers should have been on it. Yeah, same basic era, but it sounds NOTHING like the Southpaw Grammar material. Belongs much more to the Vauxhall sound/era.
Suggested Kill Uncle revision:
A) The Loop / Our Frank / Asian Rut / Mute Witness / Found Found Found / I'm The End Of The Family Line
B) Sing Your Life / King Leer / Journalists Who Lie / There's A Place In Hell For Me And My Friends / Tony The Pony
Suggested Southpaw Grammar revision:
A) The Teachers Are Afraid Of The Pupils / Nobody Loves Us / Reader Meet Author / Do Your Best And Don't Worry / You Should Have Been Nice To Me
B) The Operation / The Boy Racer / Best Friend On The Payroll / Dagenham Dave / Honey, You Know Where To Find Me / Southpaw
Gregor Samsa
I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
Love what you wrote, in general. But You Should Have…on SG? Again, same era but it would stick out like a sore thumb.
F
FactChecker
Guest
The great lost b-side is "You Must Please Remember" which was ironically forgotten.
Speaking of what if… what if this ended up being the cover for WPINOYB?
www.morrissey-solo.com
World Peace - Alternate Cover
Maybe I am three years too late, maybe it escaped me at the time, I dunno. But here is an alternate cover I came across a few days ago...
www.morrissey-solo.com
