paintavulgarpicture
Member
Virgin, running GP practices? What the f**k is this world coming to!
David Cameron Quotes Morrissey
- Thread starter Uncleskinny
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konstantinl
Junior Member
I'm a working class Glaswegian who lived through the late seventies and eighties. I have absolutely no time for Tory governments and I don't like Cameron at all but....
....the current government HAS to go. If that means a Conservative government for 4 years then so be it.
True democracy isn't so much about putting governments in, it's about removing politicians that have failed the people from their office.
All governments are corrupt, its the nature of the beast, but its our job as citizens to make sure no government is allowed to abuse its position for any length of time and I'm afraid New Labours time has long past.
....the current government HAS to go. If that means a Conservative government for 4 years then so be it.
True democracy isn't so much about putting governments in, it's about removing politicians that have failed the people from their office.
All governments are corrupt, its the nature of the beast, but its our job as citizens to make sure no government is allowed to abuse its position for any length of time and I'm afraid New Labours time has long past.
Wild Oscar
Born-again Atheist
I agree with you about having the right, no, the need to remove politicians who have failed, but you can't go through life (in the sense that politics runs through life) voting against something and not for it.
Doesn't everyone have a dream on what society should or shouldn't look like?
No, I suppose it's a two-way street isn't it?
I support Labour because I believe in a fairer society, and I think they want to deliver it (whether or not they achieve is another matter!). But I'm also against the Tories as I have that (albeit old-fashioned) view that they will, sooner or later, do the working class down.
They may offer short-term sweeteners to soften you up but sooner or later will pull the rug from under you - probably when you're not expecting it! (Okay, some of you are thinking: "what's the difference between them?")
Doesn't everyone have a dream on what society should or shouldn't look like?
No, I suppose it's a two-way street isn't it?
I support Labour because I believe in a fairer society, and I think they want to deliver it (whether or not they achieve is another matter!). But I'm also against the Tories as I have that (albeit old-fashioned) view that they will, sooner or later, do the working class down.
They may offer short-term sweeteners to soften you up but sooner or later will pull the rug from under you - probably when you're not expecting it! (Okay, some of you are thinking: "what's the difference between them?")
The gulf between rich and poor has never been wider in Britain. Labour could blame the Conservatives for this in their first term but they're now into their third, with over 10 years' worth of power.
They are the most right-wing Labour party in the history of politics and yet you think they believe in a fairer society?
A few months back a proposal was made to prevent super-rich exiles from avoiding paying tax and to increase inheritance tax. Unbelievably, it was made by the Conservative party! Labour's had 10 years to sort this kind of stuff out.
Norman Tebbit was interviewed in the Observer a few weeks ago and said 'even I know some things shouldn't be privatised'. We now have a Labour government which is more right wing than Norman Tebbit!
Not entirely convinced this thread is in the right forum!
Gates
Recluse
I would agree to an extent, but were they to become more popular they would become just as bad. Such is the nature of power. You must become a certain way to obtain it, and that way is completely f***ed.
I hate Cameron and his stupid party.
Emotional Guide Dog
Chairman Of The Bored
I've no problem with Virgin doctors (though I'd prefer a doc with a little more experience. Boom boom!) & I've no problem with privatised railways but Virgin are just the pits. I'm sure they run an adequate service most of the time but the West Coast upgrade has disrupted services every almost every weekend for five years & the benefits will be minimal.
You shouldn't get a train ticket expecting things to go wrong but that's what it's like on Virgin. They've almost forced me onto Megabus!
Lib Dems: Hmmm. There's no harm in voting for them if you want Labour out & can't bring yourself to vote Tory. They won't win much but at least you can say you voted. I'm from Chesterfield originally & they're a case in point. Tony Benn was our MP for 18 years and the second he retired, Labour were out.
Vote for whoever you like but Labour have got to go.
This charming man.
Throbbing member.
Labour, Conservatives. Not much difference to the ordinary folk IMO.
Brel
Guttersnipe
Excuse me! I didn't even mention the Lib Dems, and I never would! Talking about good old Anthony Wedgewood, I heard that he was thinking about standing as an MP again, next time round? That would be interesting, especially as his son in so "New" Labour!
Emotional Guide Dog
Chairman Of The Bored
Oh sorry,someone else mentioned the Lib Dems. I only voted for them in Chesterfield because I wanted Labour out & the Tories only ever come third in that town. That's my story & I'm sticking to it!
Tony Benn just might be dead by the time Gordon Brown (who no-one voted for as PM by the way) calls an election. I heard that he was thinking of running again too. It would be a mistake though he'd probably win. Then he could live out his days slapping Hilary (Benn not Clinton but either way) around.
Brel
Guttersnipe
Emotional Guide Dog
Chairman Of The Bored
It was Chesterfield in 2001. EVERYONE voted Lib Dem.
Brel
Guttersnipe
The 46th most expensive MP in the country. A lot of tea?
Wild Oscar
Born-again Atheist
Yes, we are a bit off-topic, aren't we?
I'm humbled by much of what you say and have probably only come back to let you know I'm not off with my tail between my legs.
As an old leftie, it saddens me that Labour is so far to the right compared with when I was active in the 80s - and a rabid despiser of Tebbit, by the way. I try to console myself with the view that the old 'Left v Right' politics has changed throughout the world - China's got the fastest-growing economy now and set to out-perform others for years to come; and that Labour had to change after four successive defeats.
I reiterate that I do think they could have given the Left a bit more credibility if they had been bolder in the first two terms, instead of trying to be all things to everyone; and I'm really p****d off over the alliance with Bush over Iraq (or on anything, for that matter). Mmmmm....the more I think about it....I wonder who my Lib Dem candidate is....?
I do know quite a few Labour MPs though - backbenchers + ministers - and I know that they want what I want and so i tend to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Brel
Guttersnipe
I don't think that this is under debate. Hitler was a veggie, but put 100 people in a room and ask them to discuss him and I don't think anyone would come chipping in with a "I'm not Hitler's greatest fan, but if a blokes a Veggie..." comment.
My line is simple. I hate Torys! I saw them come into power and go out. During which time I witnessed the destruction of working class communities and identity. Thatchers "There is no such thing as Society" speech was not so much an observation, more a Manifesto. However, like most of my friends on the left, I have lost faith in Labour.
Grim O'Grady
Banned
can I refer my learned friend to this thread http://forums.morrissey-solo.com/showthread.php?t=84831
love
Grim
konstantinl
Junior Member
On your first point that was fine when politicians had a shred of honor and resigned when they failed in their office. It might be hard for some younger posters to believe but this actually used to happen because politicians actually saw themselves as accountable to the public. That mentality no longer exists. The public HAS to exercise its democratic powers now to remove politicians because the political mindset completely altered during the Thatcher era. Almost every minister now has the arrogance of a tyrant because they believe in spin so much so that you suspect they are beyond even recognizing their own failures.
It's also possible now because there are no major ideological divides between the two main parties. Essentially New Labour overlaps with moderate Conservatism (sometimes even less moderate Conservatism) and public opinion on most issues is homogeneous at best, apathetic at worst. It is no longer the case that changing from a Labour government to a Conservative government means a radically different way in which the country is run, certainly in the most important aspects (economy, foreign policy etc) it will totter along with mere tweaks.
As for the working class....well, it no longer exists. I was born a stones throw from steel works and coal mines. We didn't even have a telephone or a freezer until well into the eighties! Thatcher's main policy during her leadership was to destroy the working class and she succeeded, utterly and completely. There is nothing comparable to working class life any more, because while there are still people who have less than others (I'm one of those people!), the working class wasn't just about your income or what job your father had, it was about a shared idea of community, that people across the country were bonded together by and connected with the belief that Socialism could protect what little they had and would serve to improve their lives. No one believes that any more, not even the old die hards.
Today, everyone in Britain is an individual and a consumer, prefers to be an individual and a consumer, and subsequently the very notion of working classness or Socialism is deader than the dodo. Incidentally I don't particularly like my own analysis but I think is one that is brutally realistic. I'd love to be wrong but sadly I don't think I am.
Brel
Guttersnipe
can I refer my learned friend to this thread http://forums.morrissey-solo.com/showthread.php?t=84831
love
Grim
I know. I was listenning to George Gallloway last night when the news came in. He said something like "Surely she'll go to Hell". She only fainted though. Only the good die young.
I have a bottle of champagne ready in my fridge for the day she dies.
Hellie
Lost
The country has gone to the dogs.What can i say about Labour?..they are not socialists they've turned into liberals.
David Cameron would make a dire PM.Its all down to the forehead -its way to big.He needs a groovy fringe.William Hague didn't cut it simply because of his looks and i rather liked him despite being a Tory.Sorry to be flippant but it really does help having a certain charisma.Look at Bill Clinton.What an absolute embarrasment he was but boy did he charm the pants of most people.
I've always voted Labour but next time my vote will be going another way.
I understand totally everything Morrissey has to say about Englishness and its decline.
David Cameron would make a dire PM.Its all down to the forehead -its way to big.He needs a groovy fringe.William Hague didn't cut it simply because of his looks and i rather liked him despite being a Tory.Sorry to be flippant but it really does help having a certain charisma.Look at Bill Clinton.What an absolute embarrasment he was but boy did he charm the pants of most people.
I've always voted Labour but next time my vote will be going another way.
I understand totally everything Morrissey has to say about Englishness and its decline.
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