Against the maturity?

[Kewpie]

The other day I talked with one of my friends about the beginning of Morrissey's solo career.

She said that the success of his solo career was, he managed to avoid the musical maturity, got a bunch of unknown musicians and started from a scratch.

I totally agree with her opinion. Looking back the period after 7 year non-recording contract working with Jerry Finn to bring different sound was, again avoiding the maturity.

On the other hand, I was wondering about the new album.

Should he keep avoiding the maturity or go to the next level?

 

[Fulham Road Lights]

I have to disagree. I don't think that maintaining a "fresh sound" is why Morrissey has been so good over the years. I think he could have quite easily gone for a more Smiths-esque sound in '88 and done it as well, and again, I much prefer the '90s sound to the '04-onwards sound.

 

[Kewpie]

I have to disagree. I don't think that maintaining a "fresh sound" is why Morrissey has been so good over the years. I think he could have quite easily gone for a more Smiths-esque sound in '88 and done it as well, and again, I much prefer the '90s sound to the '04-onwards sound.

Errr, sorry, but the discussion is not asking your preference of Smiths-esque sound or post 2004 stuff.

Should Morrissey keep avoiding the musical maturity or go to the next level?

 

[mcrickson]

Errr, sorry, but the discussion is not asking your preference of Smiths-esque sound or post 2004 stuff.

Way to TOTALLY disregard everything but the last sentence of FRL's post. That's an excellent encouragement of conversation by a moderator in a forum.

As for avoiding "musical maturity" (that phrase doesn't really even make sense in regards to what you're asking - a professional musician, even if he is just an unheard-of session musician, is still mature - they have to be to make a living at what they're doing) I'd hardly call Vini Reilly an "unknown musician" - the Durutti Column had been around since 78. And Stephen Street had already begun making a name for himself as a producer. Then, before recruiting Boz & the lads, Moz worked with Andy and Mike again -- certainly not unknown musicians, having been in the Smiths as well.

 

[Fulham Road Lights]

Errr, sorry, but the discussion is not asking your preference of Smiths-esque sound or post 2004 stuff.

Should Morrissey keep avoiding the musical maturity or go to the next level?

But you opened the discussion by talking about each era of Morrissey's music. I assume that what you mean by the phrase "musical maturity" is the act of going stale as a musician, or running out of fresh ideas. If I agree with you that he has tried to avoid musical maturity, but I don't think that it means that he has gotten better over time because I prefer his material pre-04, I therefore don't think that it was key to his success as you do. That's all I was saying.

 

[Kewpie]

Way to TOTALLY disregard everything but the last sentence of FRL's post. That's an excellent encouragement of conversation by a moderator in a forum.

As for avoiding "musical maturity" (that phrase doesn't really even make sense in regards to what you're asking - a professional musician, even if he is just an unheard-of session musician, is still mature - they have to be to make a living at what they're doing) I'd hardly call Vini Reilly an "unknown musician" - the Durutti Column had been around since 78. And Stephen Street had already begun making a name for himself as a producer. Then, before recruiting Boz & the lads, Moz worked with Andy and Mike again -- certainly not unknown musicians, having been in the Smiths as well.

Eeeek, although you understood what I was trying to say you couldn't help picking on the stuff which you could've ignored.

Morrissey did not go on tour with Mike, Andy and Craig, but got relatively unknown Boz & the Lads in order to start a new adventure.

 

[Raphael Lambach]

Errr, sorry, but the discussion is not asking your preference of Smiths-esque sound or post 2004 stuff.

Should Morrissey keep avoiding the musical maturity or go to the next level?

What do you mean for "next level"?
I think what Morrissey made on his last albums is totally different from what he made on early years of his solo career or even at mid-90's.

 

[mcrickson]

Eeeek, although you understood what I was trying to say you couldn't help picking on the stuff which you could've ignored.

Hmm. Sound familiar?
Doesn't seem to me like I misunderstood a thing - you just totally shot down FRL's post when a valid point of view was offered in it. It's not my fault you couldn't ask your question clearly enough to gauge an answer that suited your fancy.

Morrissey did not go on tour with Mike, Andy and Craig, but got relatively unknown Boz & the Lads in order to start a new adventure.

So you are NOT talking about the beginning of Morrissey's career, which is what you stated you were talking about in your original post.

 

[Harsh Truth]

The other day I talked with one of my friends about the beginning of Morrissey's solo career.

She said that the success of his solo career was, he managed to avoid the musical maturity, got a bunch of unknown musicians and started from a scratch.

I totally agree with her opinion. Looking back the period after 7 year non-recording contract working with Jerry Finn to bring different sound was, again avoiding the maturity.

On the other hand, I was wondering about the new album.

Should he keep avoiding the maturity or go to the next level?

I have no idea what you are talking about when you say "maturity." What exactly is it that mature artists do? Sounds awful.

 

[CrystalGeezer]

I have no idea what you are talking about when you say "maturity." What exactly is it that mature artists do? Sounds awful.

They become celebrity coaches on American Idol and are seen commiserating at Elton John's baby's baptism party. Duh.

 

[not_me_not_I]

They become celebrity coaches on American Idol and are seen commiserating at Elton John's baby's baptism party. Duh.

Well, if that's the definition, he should definitely avoid it.

I'm just confused by the dichotomy that Kewpie is trying to explain. If mature means polished, Morrissey hasn't sounded unpolished since Meat Is Murder (IMO). Is mature music = easy listening? Is that considered "the next level"? Or is mature music more experimental? I guess I just don't get it.

 

[Dave]

My definition of a mature artist would be one who knows what they are attempting to present in their art and how to achieve that. IT doesn't mean less spontaneous though it can feel that way because there may be less experimentation, and the overall technique is slicker. I think that maybe mature here means polished.
Some examples I have seen of this are when am artist, usually the singer, uses one band for live shows but usually uses studio musicians to record, because they can record their parts faster. If Morrissey's touring band wasn't polished at the start they went on to be. So I don't know if the idea is that Morrissey should start over with new collaborators, fresh to the business, or work with very polished musicians.

 

[Kewpie]

My definition of a mature artist would be one who knows what they are attempting to present in their art and how to achieve that. IT doesn't mean less spontaneous though it can feel that way because there may be less experimentation, and the overall technique is slicker. I think that maybe mature here means polished.
Some examples I have seen of this are when am artist, usually the singer, uses one band for live shows but usually uses studio musicians to record, because they can record their parts faster. If Morrissey's touring band wasn't polished at the start they went on to be. So I don't know if the idea is that Morrissey should start over with new collaborators, fresh to the business, or work with very polished musicians.

Thank you Dave, your description is better than mine.
The musical maturity is the polished slick sound.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

Is there a thread for "I'm confused as f***!"? If there is, can this one please be merged with it. And change the thread title.