The Smiths are born in "The Jean Genie"

[joe frady]

So 'Rolling Stone' magazine ask Bono to choose his personal David Bowie playlist of 15 songs ~ Bono picks Bowie ~ amongst which is "The Jean Genie", of which Bono states ~ 'Every so often, Bowie goes up against Jagger. I love his take on blues and R&B — the discipline, that swing beat. The Smiths are born in that song too.'
Is there any point discussing what we think he means by that, or shall we just do the usual 'Bono's a rich dick' schtick?

 

[CrystalGeezer]

Re: The Smiths are born in "The Jean Genie"...

I hate that song so I'm voting "rick dick schtick." Like I hate that song so much I don;t want to try to extrapolate some symbollic reason Bono was touched by the voice of God and uttered that conclusion.

 

[Sim Tappertit]

Maybe he just means that Bowie influenced them. We all know Morrissey likes Bowie and if you compare the riffs of Jean Genie and I Started Something I Couldnt Finish then it seems so does Johnny Marr. Or it could be Bono being an idiot for the millionth time?

 

[Qvist]

Well, Bono has said some insightful things about the Smiths. No immediate or obvious path leading from The Jean Genie to the Smiths presents itself to me, but I suppose he must be talking about the guitar. That swaggering riff could perhaps be likened somewhat to what they're doing in Sheila take a Bow, or Panic?

cheers

 

[Orson Swells]

Maybe he just means that Bowie influenced them. We all know Morrissey likes Bowie and if you compare the riffs of Jean Genie and I Started Something I Couldnt Finish then it seems so does Johnny Marr. Or it could be Bono being an idiot for the millionth time?

I'm not sure Bono knows what he's talking about; The Jean Genie doesn't sound particularly Smithsian musically or lyrically - though it does sound like Block Buster by The Sweet.

In terms of the music, I always felt I Started Something I Couldn't Finish owed more to Cracked Actor - from the same album, of course.

 

[Tingle3]

Jean Genie has a stomping sound kinda like "In the Future When All Swells" to me. Though "Get It On" is a closer match.

 

[Qvist]

I'm not sure Bono knows what he's talking about; The Jean Genie doesn't sound particularly Smithsian musically or lyrically - though it does sound like Block Buster by The Sweet.

In terms of the music, I always felt I Started Something I Couldn't Finish owed more to Cracked Actor - from the same album, of course.

Personally I find all these comparisons to I started something rather misplaced - I can see the similarities in the melody and so on, but it doesn't remind me at all of Jean Genie, and much less of Cracked Actor. Like Strangeways in general, it's all airy polish - it has absolutely no rawness in it whatsoever, which is the very thing that defines both of these Bowie songs.

cheers

 

[bored]

Actually, Bono wasn't even asked to do the piece.. He just made a surprise appearance at the RS office and told them what to print.

 

[Worm]

Bono wasn't so much saying Bowie's song was mined by The Smiths for their sound, but more that "The Jean Genie" was typical of the way Bowie-- and later The Smiths-- appropriated blues and R&B: "the discipline, that swing beat". Not a terribly incisive bit of criticism, but far from wrong.

I guess Suede don't deserve a mention.

 

[DAVIE]

I don't think Bowie and Morrissey have much in common...Bowie changes his style of music and appearence all the time and Morrissey hasn't changed once except midly progress in his own alternative genre...still they're both great lyricists/singers

 

[Raphael Lambach]

I love Bowie, but unfortunately all his good songs were made 'til mid-80's. I respect him so much and I do really believe he had lots of influences over Morrissey.

 

[Orson Swells]

Personally I find all these comparisons to I started something rather misplaced - I can see the similarities in the melody and so on, but it doesn't remind me at all of Jean Genie, and much less of Cracked Actor. Like Strangeways in general, it's all airy polish - it has absolutely no rawness in it whatsoever, which is the very thing that defines both of these Bowie songs.

cheers

Personally, I disagree!

While I hear nothing of "The Jean Genie" in "I Started Something...", compare the intro, brass arrangement, guitar and general tempo and timbre with that of "Cracked Actor"... very similar. Listen again!

Aladdin Sane is quite a polished album all round really - the title track, "Drive-In Saturday", "The Prettiest Star", "Lady Grinning Soul" - and along with the later Beatles albums, a quantifiable influence on Strangeways... as a whole.

 

[Qvist]

While I hear nothing of "The Jean Genie" in "I Started Something...", compare the intro, brass arrangement, guitar and general tempo and timbre with that of "Cracked Actor"... very similar. Listen again!

Sure, the melody is quite similar. But nothing else is. There's no brass in Cracked Actor, as far as I can recall? I can't imagine what you find similar in the intro, which in the case of CA is a grovelling hellhound of a guitar gradually firing up and creeping into action like a diabolical molten lead landslide, whereas in ISSICF you have a sort of jaunty brass/guitar-driven saunter. One is like the legions of hell released, the other is like Bertie Wooster out for a stroll. Again, I'm hard pressed to imagine guitars much more different than the ones on these two songs, and as for timbre, well, I believe I have already made my point about that.

Aladdin Sane is quite a polished album all round really - the title track, "Drive-In Saturday", "The Prettiest Star", "Lady Grinning Soul" - and along with the later Beatles albums, a quantifiable influence on Strangeways... as a whole.

Mmmmm, do you really think so? I mean, sure it's polished in its way and so is Strangeways, but the influences it's pointing towards (above all the Stones and also Cabaret) are not ones normally associated with the Smiths. But a certain affinity nevertheless perhaps? It's an interesting thought. Last Night I Dreamed as Morrissey's counterpoint to Time? Death of a Disco Dancer and Aladdin Sane? Drive-In Saturday is rather Smithsish of course, in a way Panic in Detroit too.

On the other hand, Strangeways entirely lack Aladdin Sane's air of consistent decadence, and also its transgression of the limits of the wide array of genres it uses.

cheers

 

[Happy Maudlin]

Bono wasn't so much saying Bowie's song was mined by The Smiths for their sound, but more that "The Jean Genie" was typical of the way Bowie-- and later The Smiths-- appropriated blues and R&B: "the discipline, that swing beat". Not a terribly incisive bit of criticism, but far from wrong.

I guess Suede don't deserve a mention.

I don't see The Smiths as having much of a rhythm and blues influence. At all.

 

[Worm]

I don't see The Smiths as having much of a rhythm and blues influence. At all.

For instance:

"The album's title track [The Queen Is Dead] was partly inspired by The MC5 and The Velvet Underground. A Velvets outtakes album called V.U. had just come out, and I loved "I Can't Stand It", mostly because it had this swinging R&B guitar."

Johnny Marr, 2006

 

[Anaesthesine]

I'm guessing that Bono is referring to Bowie's evocation of glam music as a genre, and the particularly swaggering, glittery-yet-tough urban attitude that is conjured up in Jean Genie. The song references New York, and was written at about the same time that The New York Dolls got their start.

It's a bit roundabout, but Bono's got a point.

 

[Nikita]

Maybe he just means that Bowie influenced them. We all know Morrissey likes Bowie and if you compare the riffs of Jean Genie and I Started Something I Couldnt Finish then it seems so does Johnny Marr. Or it could be Bono being an idiot for the millionth time?

The riff of I started something is much closer to Bowie's Cracked actor than Jean Genie.

Jean Genie is much more Bowie's attempt to play some Doors song.

 

[Orson Swells]

The riff of I started something is much closer to Bowie's Cracked actor than Jean Genie.

That's what I've been trying to explain!

 

[Orson Swells]

Sure, the melody is quite similar. But nothing else is. There's no brass in Cracked Actor, as far as I can recall? I can't imagine what you find similar in the intro, which in the case of CA is a grovelling hellhound of a guitar gradually firing up and creeping into action like a diabolical molten lead landslide, whereas in ISSICF you have a sort of jaunty brass/guitar-driven saunter. One is like the legions of hell released, the other is like Bertie Wooster out for a stroll. Again, I'm hard pressed to imagine guitars much more different than the ones on these two songs, and as for timbre, well, I believe I have already made my point about that.



Mmmmm, do you really think so? I mean, sure it's polished in its way and so is Strangeways, but the influences it's pointing towards (above all the Stones and also Cabaret) are not ones normally associated with the Smiths. But a certain affinity nevertheless perhaps? It's an interesting thought. Last Night I Dreamed as Morrissey's counterpoint to Time? Death of a Disco Dancer and Aladdin Sane? Drive-In Saturday is rather Smithsish of course, in a way Panic in Detroit too.

On the other hand, Strangeways entirely lack Aladdin Sane's air of consistent decadence, and also its transgression of the limits of the wide array of genres it uses.

cheers

Really! Listen again! The stop-start guitar intros are very similar and the main slightly Stoogey riff is too. Apparently Johnny went lookng for inspiration midway into the making of this track and I wonder if "Cracked Actor" is where he found it...

I was talking about the brass in "I Started Something..." as compared to Bowie's distorted harmonica in "Actor"... again a possible source for Marr's arrangement.

Obviously, Morrissey's piano on "Disco Dancer" is an (off-key) nod to Mike Garson's random tinkling on "Aladdin Sane" itself - and there's something of "Lady Grinning Soul"'s grand, elongated piano in the avant garde intro to "Last Night I Dreamt..." and more than a little of the pseudo Bond theme about them both.

Anyway, they're two of my favourite albums and I've harboured these thoughts for many years now! At the very least Strangeways... is something of the doomy little nephew to the more decadently wasted Aladdin Sane.

 

[Happy Maudlin]

For instance:

"The album's title track [The Queen Is Dead] was partly inspired by The MC5 and The Velvet Underground. A Velvets outtakes album called V.U. had just come out, and I loved "I Can't Stand It", mostly because it had this swinging R&B guitar."

Johnny Marr, 2006

I would be more intrigued if there was a more direct influence, that hasn't been extracted or manipulated by other artists. "The swinging guitar" influence is inevitable, but there is no distinctive groove to the Smiths and ironically the Velvet Underground is known for its lack of R&B influences in their sound. The likelihood of the Smiths or Morrissey being directly influenced by R&B is small though.