Is This Website Why Morrissey Is Without A Record Deal?

[Maurice E]

Normally I would welcome someone who is making their first post and be overly polite, but are you kidding me?!

Here are some other aspects a label might consider before signing Morrissey:
a) The steady decline in sales numbers for his past three "comeback" albums. YATQ sold well, produced a live CD, and I believe four singles. ROTT sold less, but still produced some singles (not four). YOR sold extremely poorly despite the mainstream media giving it largely positive reviews, and it produced one single, yes? Not a encouraging trend line.
b) Morrissey has not done himself any favors with his comments on race, the royal wedding, Lady Di, and now the fans.
c) He has a reputation of being difficult to work with. The playing field is littered with the corpses of those who tried to manage him.
d) Because of the poor sales, most record companies are pushing for a reunion of The Smiths. They view this as a far safer investment. Clearly, Morrissey has refused, so there you have it.

Here's a thought: take a poll of those here who have leveled critical comments towards Morrissey's recent work and ask them approximately how much they have spent on Morrissey concerts, albums, singles, etc. The dollar amount would stretch into the thousands for most.

I don't really think the number of singles than an album 'produces' is particularly relevant. It's whether the singles are airplay hits and generate sales for the album that counts. The two wonderful (and therefore radio-friendly) singles off Viva Hate helped the album sell many thousands more copies than the four relatively-feeble singles off Ringleader of the Tomatoes, only the first of which (You Have Killed Me) received decent airplay (and that was 95% down to Radio 2).
Although four singles were released off Who Ate Me Curry, only First of the Gang received much airplay (top 20 airplay chart), and that was the only single that resulted in the album going back up the chart.

 

[Mars_Rover]

When I consider some these issues, I start feeling very sad for Morrissey. And I am pretty sure he doesn't want anyone to pity him. And I am also pretty sure he doesn't deserve it! :-/ It's just a shame.

Surely you jest. Morrissey is his own worst enemy but he'll never admit he's wrong or needs to adjust his attitude & expectations.

 

[Vauxhall95]

I don't really think the number of singles than an album 'produces' is particularly relevant. It's whether the singles are airplay hits and generate sales for the album that counts.

Generally, labels don't keep releasing singles three and four if one and two didn't generate sales of the album. The point of the thread was whether Morrissey was unsigned because of comments on this website. If YOR went to double platinum, he would have a recording contract. Sales numbers do matter for little things like whether labels chose to sign artists.

Also, I understood his past three albums were the highest selling albums of his career, am I wrong? I wish Johan De Witt were still around to answer that one...

 

[Deleted member 1074]

Generally, labels don't keep releasing singles three and four if one and two didn't generate sales of the album. The point of the thread was whether Morrissey was unsigned because of comments on this website. If YOR went to double platinum, he would have a recording contract. Sales numbers do matter for little things like whether labels chose to sign artists.

Also, I understood his past three albums were the highest selling albums of his career, am I wrong? I wish Johan De Witt were still around to answer that one...

No. His last 3 albums were hardly his most successful.

Here are the US Soundscan stats as of 2010 for Morrissey.
Note - this only reflects US sales and only sales from 1992 on...

Your Arsenal: 366,047
Bona Drag: 360,977
Vauxhall & I: 293,017
Viva Hate: 234,804
You Are The Quarry: 230,169
Kill Uncle: 221,293
Best of Morrissey: 179,746
Ringleader of The Tormentors: 97,502
Maladjusted: 88,554
World Of Morrissey: 69,357
Southpaw Grammar: 67,451

 

[peptastic]

Nope.
If this site was that influential Chloe Svenigy wouldn't be a successful actress. I remember people were downright nasty about her awhile back on this site.

NME did their bit.
But nme no longer has cred.

It seems his brief heydey in '04 has passed. The whole indie interpol/the strokes/the libertines/the hives/the vines/the killers/the distillers/the pillers/ the illers/ the willers/ the white stripes/ franz ferdinand/ indie mania is gone. My big brother isn't a scenester but he didn't give Morrissey a chance until the early '00s indie singers praised him. He made fun of me as a teen for loving moz. He'd like the smiths but for Moz's voice.
Then in '04 that all changed.

Now its Bieber fever and reality starlets.

Moz should enter Eurovision to get a record deal.
Those the voice contestants all had record deals. All were dropped by their labels. They have hits from being on reality tv.

We are living in a different age.

 

[dublinmozzfan]

Don't know weither you can say this site is the reason he hasn't got a record deal.
But one things for sure this site is by any means a fan site!!!!!. So called fans calling their idol a hypocrite happy enough to go his gigs and have a good night out listening to the classics then go home and become keyboard warriors -1.
But look all big artist/bands from different generations oasis last and final album Dig out your soul apart from The shock of the lightning I thought it was pretty average Imo from a great band.
U2 No line on the horizon terrible.

 

[dublinmozzfan]

Don't know weither you can say this site is the reason he hasn't got a record deal.
But one things for sure this site is by any means a fan site!!!!!. So called fans calling their idol a hypocrite happy enough to go his gigs and have a good night out listening to the classics then go home and become keyboard warriors -1.

 

[2-J]

No. His last 3 albums were hardly his most successful.

Here are the US Soundscan stats as of 2010 for Morrissey.
Note - this only reflects US sales and only sales from 1992 on...

Your Arsenal: 366,047
Bona Drag: 360,977
Vauxhall & I: 293,017
Viva Hate: 234,804
You Are The Quarry: 230,169

Yes, but you have to take into account that even by 2004, the record market had shrunk somewhat from its glory days. In light of that, Quarry has to be seen as roughly as successful sales wise in the US as his best-selling albums (excepting perhaps Viva Hate and Kill Uncle..).

One of the things about YATQ is, as remarked on here, it was 'the comeback record' and promoted as such. To an extent, the law of diminishing returns operated for the subsequent two albums (although there were other factors too, neither of them were as radio-friendly as Quarry, particularly lacking a FOTGTD. and, the downturn in album sales in the industry also continued).

 

[davidt]

It wouldn't take much for the head of a record company to look at this and assume Morrissey has no fans.

I read an article which I unfortunately can't find that stated one of the reasons Sanctuary signed Morrissey was because of his 'strong online fan presence'. Most of the times this site is not named but I believe it was and still is a large part of that presence. If Morrissey ever once pointed to the site to record label people to help him get previous deals I'd say there is some hypocrisy in blaming it for not getting a record deal.

As far as Morrissey is concerned, the site was largely ignored, at times insulted or laughed at, and is now being fought with.

People mention the site's importance now and in the 'wilderness years' but I think it's speculative, we really don't know. Morrissey already has a legacy and name and as one of the best performers will continue to sell out wherever he goes. I'm sure there would have been another site that would have taken over if this did not exist, but we really can't say unless we're somehow able to recreate "It's A Wonderful Life".

Morrissey may view the site as damaging to his career. My opinion has always been that it helps. I put in a lot of work over the years to keep it updated so that passionate fans are brought together and kept interested. On the surface to casual observers it may be a bit off-putting but this site is not geared to them and they weren't going to stick around long anyway.

The hardcore fan, the advocates, the influencers are the ones that matter and why I do the site. I was a huge advocate at one time but admittedly in the last few years I have not going out of my way anymore to draw in new fans. I still put in hours on the site everyday but am not making extra effort otherwise. I think it's human nature, who else would go on given this type of treatment? Many hardcore fans I've known in the past have lost interest and some didn't even bother to listen to the last album. I'm still interested and will continue to do the site until that changes.

 

[Vauxhall95]

No. His last 3 albums were hardly his most successful.

Here are the US Soundscan stats as of 2010 for Morrissey.
Note - this only reflects US sales and only sales from 1992 on...

Your Arsenal: 366,047
Bona Drag: 360,977
Vauxhall & I: 293,017
Viva Hate: 234,804
You Are The Quarry: 230,169
Kill Uncle: 221,293
Best of Morrissey: 179,746
Ringleader of The Tormentors: 97,502
Maladjusted: 88,554
World Of Morrissey: 69,357
Southpaw Grammar: 67,451

I don't know the numbers and admitted as much in my post; however I thought when the Greatest Hits album came out the reason the track listing was so heavily filled with comeback tracks was because those songs were the ones that charted the best. (I realize I'm talking about two different things: chart position for individual singles versus album sales)

I guess I assumed that because his comeback albums had charted relatively well that the album sales would have reflected that. On that note, sweet suffering Jesus those sales are awful! There's the answer about why he doesn't have a label: his last "critically acclaimed" album didn't break 100,000 units...

 

[Vauxhall95]

I read an article which I unfortunately can't find that stated one of the reasons Sanctuary signed Morrissey was because of his 'strong online fan presence'. Most of the times this site is not named but I believe it was and still is a large part of that presence. If Morrissey ever once pointed to the site to record label people to help him get previous deals I'd say there is some hypocrisy in blaming it for not getting a record deal.

As far as Morrissey is concerned, the site was largely ignored, at times insulted or laughed at, and is now being fought with.

People mention the site's importance now and in the 'wilderness years' but I think it's speculative, we really don't know. Morrissey already has a legacy and name and as one of the best performers will continue to sell out wherever he goes. I'm sure there would have been another site that would have taken over if this did not exist, but we really can't say unless we're somehow able to recreate "It's A Wonderful Life".

Morrissey may view the site as damaging to his career. My opinion has always been that it helps. I put in a lot of work over the years to keep it updated so that passionate fans are brought together and kept interested. On the surface to casual observers it may be a bit off-putting but this site is not geared to them and they weren't going to stick around long anyway.

The hardcore fan, the advocates, the influencers are the ones that matter and why I do the site. I was a huge advocate at one time but admittedly in the last few years I have not going out of my way anymore to draw in new fans. I still put in hours on the site everyday but am not making extra effort otherwise. I think it's human nature, who else would go on given this type of treatment? Many hardcore fans I've known in the past have lost interest and some didn't even bother to listen to the last album. I'm still interested and will continue to do the site until that changes.

Thank you again David for keeping the site going and especially during the seven lean years. True, we have no way of proving a negative but the devotion to this site by you and countless fans during those years and subsequent ones surely did not adversely harm his career. I give you you much credit, after the first cease and assist letter I would have flipped him the proverbial bird and taken my toys and gone home, that you maintained and devoted "hours a day" to this site just speaks to how committed a fan you are.

Now, why you had to come out from behind the curtain for that post I do not know! You know, we would all like to hear from you more often. In some ways it must be a bummer to run a Morrissey fan site but not weigh in on discussions?

 

[Vauxhall95]

Yes, but you have to take into account that even by 2004, the record market had shrunk somewhat from its glory days. In light of that, Quarry has to be seen as roughly as successful sales wise in the US as his best-selling albums (excepting perhaps Viva Hate and Kill Uncle..).

One of the things about YATQ is, as remarked on here, it was 'the comeback record' and promoted as such. To an extent, the law of diminishing returns operated for the subsequent two albums (although there were other factors too, neither of them were as radio-friendly as Quarry, particularly lacking a FOTGTD. and, the downturn in album sales in the industry also continued).

Agreed. Although, I do have to wonder why he does what he does. Don't Make Fun of Daddy's Voice, Shame is the Name, possibly even Ganglord would have made solid singles but were relegated to b-side status. As a fan, whatever... It doesn't matter to me if they are on the album or the single I'm buying both, but when it comes to garnering airplay I think it matters. For all the critical acclaim YOR received, it was dead on arrival in the sense how was that album going to be marketed to fans outside his base?

 

[Deleted member 1074]

I don't know the numbers and admitted as much in my post; however I thought when the Greatest Hits album came out the reason the track listing was so heavily filled with comeback tracks was because those songs were the ones that charted the best. (I realize I'm talking about two different things: chart position for individual singles versus album sales)

I guess I assumed that because his comeback albums had charted relatively well that the album sales would have reflected that. On that note, sweet suffering Jesus those sales are awful! There's the answer about why he doesn't have a label: his last "critically acclaimed" album didn't break 100,000 units...

I think there are probably two reasons his last 'Greatest Hits' album featured so many 2004-2006 tracks...

1) He truly believes, as he's stated before, that his last 3 albums have been his best.

2) He owns the rights to all songs from his Sanctuary tenure...unlike his early material, which he has to pay Warner to use.


The lowest charting single on the Greatest Hits CD was #16 "I Just Want To See The Boy Happy"...which means THESE, which performed equal or better, were left off:

Interesting Drug (#9)
November Spawned A Monster (#12)
Alma Matters (#16)

And if you just wanted to limit it to Top 20 singles, these could have been added as well:

You're The One For Me, Fatty (#19)
We Hate It When Our Friends Become Successful (#17)
Ouija Board, Ouija Board (#18)


So, really, when it comes down to it, Decca and Morrissey didn't want to spend most of their money to license the songs from Warner because that would have cut into their profits from the album sales.

 

[davidt]

Thank you again David for keeping the site going and especially during the seven lean years. True, we have no way of proving a negative but the devotion to this site by you and countless fans during those years and subsequent ones surely did not adversely harm his career. I give you you much credit, after the first cease and assist letter I would have flipped him the proverbial bird and taken my toys and gone home, that you maintained and devoted "hours a day" to this site just speaks to how committed a fan you are.

Now, why you had to come out from behind the curtain for that post I do not know! You know, we would all like to hear from you more often. In some ways it must be a bummer to run a Morrissey fan site but not weigh in on discussions?

You are welcome. I'll weigh in on site related stuff from time to time but I tend to stay out of discussions as I prefer to remain neutral (although that can be difficult recently, heh). I welcome all points of view on the site and am glad to just see them expressed.

 

[2-J]

So, really, when it comes down to it, Decca and Morrissey didn't want to spend most of their money to license the songs from Warner because that would have cut into their profits from the album sales.

Most definitely! That's of course what it was. Calling it a 'Greatest Hits' was really a mockery. The way they justified it was 'these are highest charting singles' (in the UK, at least) but that was really ignoring the way charts have changed over the years. Especially with Quarry, Morrissey benefitted from the state of the UK singles chart in two ways: 1) it was the very end of the period before legal downloads counted for the charts. Already physical singles sales were massively down. Morrissey had a fanbase that especially with the incentive of B-Sides, would still buy singles. This carried over to ROTT a bit as legal downloads were still taking off somewhat, but the effect was diminished. 2) in the past, singles would go up and down the charts, have a slow build, sell over time, etc. Whereas in the late 90s and early 00s, songs would chart high in the first week and fall, hardly any songs climbed. So more songs had higher peak positions (part of this was a 10 year or so period where singles could be up to half price in the first week. or many of them were).

tldr; Greatest Hits did not contain a representative selection of Morrissey's greatest hits in any real sense of the word, the track selection was self-serving for financial reasons.

 

[Vauxhall95]

I think there are probably two reasons his last 'Greatest Hits' album featured so many 2004-2006 tracks...

1) He truly believes, as he's stated before, that his last 3 albums have been his best.

2) He owns the rights to all songs from his Sanctuary tenure...unlike his early material, which he has to pay Warner to use.


The lowest charting single on the Greatest Hits CD was #16 "I Just Want To See The Boy Happy"...which means THESE, which performed equal or better, were left off:

Interesting Drug (#9)
November Spawned A Monster (#12)
Alma Matters (#16)

And if you just wanted to limit it to Top 20 singles, these could have been added as well:

You're The One For Me, Fatty (#19)
We Hate It When Our Friends Become Successful (#17)
Ouija Board, Ouija Board (#18)


So, really, when it comes down to it, Decca and Morrissey didn't want to spend most of their money to license the songs from Warner because that would have cut into their profits from the album sales.

Interesting post. I don't know where you get the time to research these things, but I'm grateful. So, how much did he sell his back catalog for? When did this happen? Gosh this makes him look like a money grubbing whore, and finally I'm glad the fetch is back!

 

[Deleted member 1074]

Interesting post. I don't know where you get the time to research these things, but I'm grateful. So, how much did he sell his back catalog for? When did this happen? Gosh this makes him look like a money grubbing whore, and finally I'm glad the fetch is back!

I don't research these things...I retain them. Lol. I don't tend to forget things I read...ever.

I don't imagine it is a case of he sold his back catalog, but rather Warner Music had a publishing rights clause in his original contract. He and his respective co-writer still own the rights to the song and receive the royalties, but as far as publishing the song goes, Warner must be paid for it. That is why you'll see certain songs say "appears courtesy of Warner Music."

I'm glad she's back too.