Do you make a distinction between the artist and the art?

[Skylarker]

.....

 

[bored]

The Copenhagen show has sort of tilted my scale.

I normally can separate the artist from the art because normally I love the art and don't care about the artist but after so many years of actually being interested in Morrissey as a person in addition to the art there is a conundrum here.

The idea of Morrissey right now makes me sad and the songs are an extension of him so I don't have much interest in listening to his music right now.

This is all new and I have no way to predict how I will feel in a month or 6 or a year.

I do think his treatment of his fans has been pretty shitty but I do not think it means anything in regards to the music.

I really liked and still like Years of Refusal. I listened to it twice on Sunday.

The 3 new songs seem pretty weak and bland but the Glastonbury footage of Action... made me like it more. I can't say it is worse than many of the songs on Kill Uncle and I know some people don't like Southpaw Grammar (which I think is great) so that might be a place where people could compare and say "The new songs are better".

I think his solo career has had cycles of creativity where it goes from high to low and back again. Perhaps this is that. Perhaps this is the beginning of the end. We won't know unless we actually get a new album so we have something complete and finished to judge.

 

[Fulham Road Lights]

I agree with this entire post, and would answer 'yes' to every question asked here (apart from the Bigger Than Jesus part).

 

[Buzzetta]

I have always like the music but have never liked his politics or his preachy-ness. In fact at live shows, I am rather put off by his constant snarky comments disparaging others in an attempt to win over the crowd.

As someone once told Bono in the middle of a U2 show, I have always said about Morrissey, "Shut up and sing."

When it comes to the man, if Morrissey saw how I lived my life and what I ate for lunch I am sure he would kick me out along with over half of those in attendance.

 

[Happy Maudlin]

I think this is a brilliantly thought of thread by the way. Shows that in the muck of this site, intelligence still survives. Anyway, I never needed to separate the man from the artist, because as you've eloquently stated, the wasn't need to. Being a Morrissey fan is a highly personal dedication. It's possible to like him solely for the music, but I find that those with more lukewarm devotions vastly preferred the Smiths anyway. The difference between Morrissey and other artists is that he strikes the curious balance between uncommon openness and aloofness. He's never sounded like anyone I ever heard of before and I have certainly not seen lyrics like his ever. Musical composition is key to making an good song, but that is heightened by Morrissey's simple presence. He is that affecting. It nearly makes him godlike, for it is impossible to know him, yet so easy to connect with him deeply. I don't believe that Morrissey ever had the capability to be social in the pure sense. His 'maladjustment' to society is both his blessing and curse. He was truly independent, not taking consideration of anything outside himself and for a long while, he cultivated such loneliness to produce some of the most brilliantly conceived lyrics in recent music history and his presentation was so nuanced and moving, it simply cannot be replicated. On a professional level, Morrissey benefited off of this highly maintained persona, but I don't think any of his fans felt cheated or exploited. Most of us participated willingly in this 'worship' of him, and justly so, because he wasn't the creation of some devil-like media conglomerate nor did he ride on the waves of a dying youth culture. He was simply himself.

The difference now is that there is no difference. That's a problem. Morrissey's social deficiencies have caught up with him and his independence traded for disconnect with other people's concerns and opinions. Him not caring about what others thought of him has been the source of the dedication that I felt towards his music, but he decimates his own reputation with not considering how his actions fully affect others. There were a lot of things he said and did that would be minor in the scope of how other artists to destroyed themselves, but they are no less disturbing. His intolerance of anyone who believes differently from him, his outrageous comments made towards people who did no harm to him and his self-absorption make him downright solipsistic. Now it is his fans (people like me) are excluded from his narrow view of the world as well. He told us to love him outside, but I feel some are justified it not loving him at all...

Strictly speaking, the man was the music and his musical decline parallels his personal decline. I will listen to his music, but he will be no different from the other artists I love but have no deep feeling for.

 

[kyleleonard]

I'll always love Morrissey, but like most people, it's getting really hard to defend him and his actions/views.

 

[gwen]

I honestly don't understand how some people aren't able to separate artist from art. The list of the wholly reprehensible misdeeds that even the "exalted" ones (e.g., John Lennon) have committed over the course of their lifetimes is a massively long one. And it's got to be as rare as hen's teeth to find an artist who's been a saint their entire lives. Spare yourselves the inevitable disappointment.

Morrissey has done a series of dickish things to be sure, but in the grand scheme of things (wife beating, running over cops, race-fueled violence, etc. etc.), it hardly seems anything to get too excited about.

 

[The_Myth]

I honestly don't understand how some people aren't able to separate artist from art. The list of the wholly reprehensible misdeeds that even the "exalted" ones (e.g., John Lennon) have committed over the course of their lifetimes is a massively long one. And it's got to be as rare as hen's teeth to find an artist who's been a saint their entire lives. Spare yourselves the inevitable disappointment.

Morrissey has done a series of dickish things to be sure, but in the grand scheme of things (wife beating, running over cops, race-fueled violence, etc. etc.), it hardly seems anything to get too excited about.

Roman Polanski is a convicted rapist. I like the film Rosemary's Baby. Yet, every time I watch it I am filled with disgust at the thought. Thankfully, he only directed the film; there are actors and writers and a whole production staff whose presence
mollifies his presence.

For an artist who works primarily by himself, that presence is magnified. When that artist claims his music is about his life, etc, then it's magnified 1000-fold. Whatever he may do, it can do nothing but influence the art, or at least perception of that art. And when his life is shitty, and that seems to be emerging in his music, well the bloom falls off the rose for many.

 

[KenzieW]

The Copenhagen show has sort of tilted my scale.

I normally can separate the artist from the art because normally I love the art and don't care about the artist but after so many years of actually being interested in Morrissey as a person in addition to the art there is a conundrum here.

The idea of Morrissey right now makes me sad and the songs are an extension of him so I don't have much interest in listening to his music right now.

This is all new and I have no way to predict how I will feel in a month or 6 or a year.

I do think his treatment of his fans has been pretty shitty but I do not think it means anything in regards to the music.

I really liked and still like Years of Refusal. I listened to it twice on Sunday.

The 3 new songs seem pretty weak and bland but the Glastonbury footage of Action... made me like it more. I can't say it is worse than many of the songs on Kill Uncle and I know some people don't like Southpaw Grammar (which I think is great) so that might be a place where people could compare and say "The new songs are better".

I think his solo career has had cycles of creativity where it goes from high to low and back again. Perhaps this is that. Perhaps this is the beginning of the end. We won't know unless we actually get a new album so we have something complete and finished to judge.

I agree. It makes me sad.

 

[Shaw]

Depends how you make the distinction. For instance, simply listening and enjoying the music without getting to the bottom of what the artist is all about has always been something I struggle to do. To gain a deeper understanding of where the artist is coming from and them in general has always been quite vital to me but for others, they don't care so much. Morrissey has created his art and music whereby him and his music are inextricably linked. There are songs that are hilarious because Morrissey wrote and sang them and if someone else had done, it wouldn't have the same effect.

What seems clear here is the issue of fandom (which is much different to loving the music). For me, fandom is as much people people attributing they are a fan of something onto their characters. People let it be known to themselves and others that they are a fan of, well Morrissey in this case, and that becomes part of their identity. We all try, perhaps mostly subconsciously, to make ourselves at least a bit unique in some ways because deep down I think every human being is extremely insecure (it's simultaneously quite liberating) about life and how insignificant we all are. Being a fan of something is as much of a guard against your own being as it is an expression, in my opinion. This is why people feel the need to defend Morrissey. It's often difficult to make distinctions when other people look at us and do not make distinctions between us as people and music taste. I know I always make assumptions of what another person is like when I know what music they like.

The thing is here, for me, I don't care much about Morrissey being a bit of a twat. If anything, I see it as a positive thing. I'm sure if I was kicked out of a gig I'd think otherwise but I think most creative heavyweights over time have always been deeply flawed in character. There's no shame in it. I have no shame in liking them. My favourite artist is Jacques Brel, but he was deeply flawed in character too. It's difficult to make a distinction from Brel and Morrissey because many aspects of their work and personal traits I've always seen as inspiring. Maybe I'm just a twat too or simply naive but I don't care for their deep faults, if anything it makes them more interesting.

 

[LuvMozzy]

I can love the songs but hate the singer. In fact i like it a bit more if I hate the singer a bit, as it's a bit naughty.
But this doesn't apply to Moz. He's been doing daft things for about 25 years now. I'm surprised people only just noticed. I love him, always.