ROTT has been , for me, the biggest musical disappointment ever. It doesn't sound like a Moz album......

I truly believe that in the future (when we're all in a long, long sleep) Ringleader of the Tormentors will be regarded as a classic, perhaps flawed, but what classics aren't?

I had thought the same about You Are the Quarry, but now that I've deep-listened to Ringleader, the former is no match...

maybe he will get back to making
some of the despair thats lacking
on this disk

markmustb1

I Will See You In Far Off Places - One of the lesser tracks on the album. Alain's worst certainly. A good enough opener I suppose. Morrissey's distinctively interesting and original take on world politics is more pedestrian here. A simple mention of the USA bombing someone isn't enough to fully explore his intelligent take on politics. America Is Not The World this ain't. If we approach it as Morrissey's political song on this album, it fails. However, if we simply apporach it as a Middle Eastern flavoured little ditty about life and love it nearly suffices.

Dear God Please Help Me - This really is one of most beautiful things Morrissey has ever recorded. I truly believe it's on par with I Know It's Over. As I said, I played it earlier on and I started crying at the second line. The organ creates the perfect ethereal ambiance. Peaceful yet troubled and tinged with regret. Morrissey sounds like a man sick of it all. Ready to lay down and die (or other). The arpeggio at the beginning and throughout is extraordinarily accomplished and evocative. I'm still not absolutely certain of the song's meaning and I don't want to be yet.

You Have Killed Me - A good single and song. Placed next to other songs on the album it quickly diminishes in quality, but as a radio friendly tune it is perfect. I think we need these songs from Morrissey. It's ours and his bread and butter.

The Youngest Was The Most Loved - A great glammy song. Visconti has sprinkled his fairy dust on this. Unfortunately, at times the music just feels slightly... dull. It could have been much better. The children's choir, however, is a revelation and saves the song from mediocrity. Frankly, the lead guitar isn't very good. It fails to be original or anything out of the ordinary. I'm disappointed that when Jesse should be producing career best work, he's creating this slightly plodding piece of music. Mozza's lyrics are entertaining, though. It's still pretty good.

In The Future When All's Well - A good bit better that The Youngest Was The Most Loved. More tuneful and interesting both lyrically and musically. Jesse still isn't doing excellently, though. Hardly that much different to the other Jesse songs on the album. It is quite fantastically catchy, though. I think more could have been done with this song. Visconti could've taken it further. Pushed Moz out of his comfort zone.

The Father Who Must Be Killed - This is one of the most interesting up-tempo songs on the album (and one of Alain's). Reminds me of other Morrissey songs in which he approaches a touchy subject with extreme intelligence and insight (November Spawned A Moster, National Front Disco etc). The music is suitably dark and disturbed. The lyrics are spot on. One of my favourites.

Life Is A Pigsty - Following on from Dear God Pleaes Help Me, Alain proves he is still Morrissey's best musician. A genuinely experimental Morrissey song. The bass is the most arresting and pertinent it's been in years. Mozza's vocals and lyrics are career best stuff and his most original in a long time. This is what Morrissey should be doing. Much more left field songs with his inimitable take on things with no lacklustre music to weigh him down. The first three minutes are merely a prelude (a genius one at that). When the acoustic guitar kicks in and Morrissey starts singing "Life is a pigsty" it becomes magically life affirming stuff somehow. "And if you don't know this, then what do you know?" Absolutely marvellous. The electric guitar kicks in at it turns from contemplative to epic. This song is epic. Words cannot express how much I love this song. And as I sit here typing it I'm starting to cry to "Even now in the final hours of my life I'm falling in love again". Dear Lord. It's beautiful.

I'll Never Be Anybody's Hero Now - Another of Alain's up-tempo numbers. It's less interesting than The Father Who Must be Killed, but still a splendid song. I love the vocal melody in this song. It reminds me of lots of Irish songs. The outro, keyboards and build up to the chorus are

I agree with King Leer's comments above. I thought that YATQ was a worthy comeback, but I feel the two years since it's release have been unkind to it.
ROTT is a far superior album. More textured, more musically adventurous, vocally outstanding, and in '...Pigsty', the greatest song of his solo career.

9/10.

hello,
this is my first post here in many years, although I have read this forum avidly since 1998 or so. just wanted to share some initial thoughts on Ringleader- have yet to form a real opinion as far as where it may rank amongst other albums- some of these comments will seem obvious to all of you, as they were written for friends who are not as familiar with Morrissey as you all are-

There are a few bits of information about Ringleader of the Tormentors that make it interesting/enticing even before a note is heard.

For starters, the album was recorded by legendary glam-rock producer Tony Visconti, in Rome.

Second, two band members appear on record for the very first time- drummer Matt Chamberlain (who replaced Deano Butterworth, after the solid-and-steady You Are the Quarry drummer left the group to tour with legendary Waldorf-based douche bags Good Charlotte) and guitarist Jesse Tobias (who filled in for longtime Morrissey guitarist/songwriter Alain Whyte on the Quarry tour when Alain fell ill). Michael Farrell is also back on piano, organ, keyboards, trumpet, trombone and percussion, which a welcome reappearance after his gorgeous keyboard playing throughout You Are the Quarry. With three band members who are appearing on either their first or second Morrissey album, there’s plenty of new blood involved to complement the trademark brilliance of longterm guitarists Boz Boorer and Alain, and bassist Gary Day.

Third, this is the first album since Morrissey originally got his band together (for the 1991 Kill Uncle tour) that does not include a single song co-written with Boz- six of Ringleader’s songs were co-written by chord-change master Whyte, while five were written by newcomer Tobias, and one by Farrell.

”I Will See You in Far Off Places” begins the album with grace, confidence and power. Visconti’s vocal sound for Morrissey is even reminiscent of the short reverb he once used for Marc Bolan on T Rex’s Electric Warrior. The drums sound organic and steady, peddling the middle-eastern-tinged guitars and keyboards along. The heaviness of “…Far Off Places” has drawn several comparisons to Led Zeppelin’s “Kashmir,” although Morrissey’s song glides and shimmers perhaps a bit more than Zeppelin’s classic, lending itself perfectly to Morrissey lyric “If your God bestows protection upon you / and if the USA doesn’t bomb you / I believe I will see you / somewhere- safe.”

”Dear God Please Help Me” is absolutely gorgeous with its Wurlitzer-piano, funerary organ and Ennio Morricone’s brilliant string arrangements. Where the second side of 1994’s Vauxhall and I gave us claustrophobic watery reverb on such beautiful songs as “I Am Hated For Loving” and “Lifeguard Sleeping, Girl Drowning,” “Dear God Please Help Me” retains a comfortable grain of hope in its exasperations and longings. “I am so very tired of doing the right thing” says Morrissey, and it’s clear that he is a happier man free of the burdens of expectations, personally and/or musically.

Jesse Tobias’s first contribution to the record, “You Have Killed Me,” contains some of Morrissey’s finest and most self-assured lyrical moments of recent years- sure, “I walk around- somehow,” but “you have killed me,” whether or not I am physically dead. “You did your best, but…”

”The Youngest Was The Most Loved” recalls classic Morrissey b-sides “Black-Eyed Susan” and “At Amber”- the refrain of “there is no such thing in life as normal” has a children’s choir singing along with Morrissey, and it feels as if they already know this to be true, even (or especially) in their youth.

”In the Future When All’s Well” begins with acoustic guitars and rockabilly-flavored electric guitars along the lines of Johnny’s textures for “Rushholme Ruffians,” and then quickly morphs into a tasty sing-along not unlike the lovely b-sides Morrissey and the boys were churning out between 1992 and 1995.

The three aforementioned songs are all Tobias-composed, while the three that follow, “The Father Who Must Be Killed,” “Life i

There are a lot of great songs: Dear God Please Help me is absolutely incredible Youngest was the Most Loved is great as is You Have Killed Me... Ans what has not been said about Life is a Pigsty... But the best part of the album is the chorus to Work of Art Now for the bad news: I cannot listen to to me you are a work of art because of the the "puke" line in the song. That is just weak. Period. I also hate the "croak" and "joke" rhyming scheme on the streets I ran. Come on. I can tolerate the "kegs between my legs" one because the song is so good. The other stuff is just - I don't know weak. Maybe I am just mad at the world

Or to paraphrase David Bowie/'Jareth': It depends on what your basis for comparison is.

Let me explain... If you compare Ringleader with other contemporary releases, which journalists and reviewers make a living doing, Ringleader deserves - has EARNED - at minimum an 8 of 10 stars. Hands down, my friends.

However, if you compare Ringleader to other solo Morrissey releases, that number drops to 4 out of 10. And, comparing it to the Smiths? 2 out of 10 stars.

See, this is all based on the perspective of who is listening. Anyone who's never heard Morrissey before would love this album.

I am very, very fond of this album myself.

I just know Moz could do so much... better.

Viva Hate 10
Vauxhall 9
Bona 9
Your Arsenal 8
Ringleader 8
Quarry 7.5
Kill Uncle 7
Maladjusted 7
Southpaw 7

ROTT is a very good album, in a lot of ways.. The whole album is so intense, and so strong and out of the conventional lines, that it isn't easy to understand all the beauty inside it at the very first time... but I'm sure that one day it will be a strong testimony of the talent and art of Moz... The more I hear those songs, the more I realize that, So, I gave a ten, undoubtely.

I voted 9, but in retrospect either 8 or 9, as ROTT is a strong album all the way through. A 10 means classic, which an artist is very lucky to ever achieve and MOZ has with Vauxhall for sure, I personally think with Arsenal, and a few Smiths albums.
ROTT has some unique tracks like "The Father who must be killed" and other's that show maturity and a return to form. ROTT is layered and fantastic all the way through. It's been playing in my car from its release and I enjoy it all the way through, I'm thoroughly impressed and even the weaker track or two doesn't cause me to cringe!

I would have voted in this category.

Also - I'd be interested to know what people make of Morrissey's references to God over the last two albums.

Voted a 7 for now, but ask me again in a month or two. Opinions always change after many listens and especially after you attend the concerts.

I instantly took to this album, unlike Quarry where I had to get what he was going for after a few listens.

ROTT just has so much to offer lyrically and musically, though slightly stronger musically. It's got guitars, keyboards, strings, murder, lust, horns, glam, children's choir, an ambulance, rain, thunder; my goodness. This was originally described as Morrissey's gentlest album, then later as balls to the walls. Apparently, it became a balance of both.

This album also marks the beginning of Jessie Tobias, which I believe shows some promise. His contributions were ecliped by the work of Mr Alain Whyte on here, but I believe its a decent debut and Jesse has time to grow.

I gave it a 9. I love it, love it, love it.

I've changed my mind about one song on the album; at first I thought 'I Just Want To See The Boy Happy' was weak, but when he performed it the other night the music and his voice sounded fantastic, which elevated the lyrics and put force into the meaning of the song for me. Now when I re-listen to it on the album I'm struck by it's sincerity (whoever it's about, though I have considered that it's about Morrissey himself, from the perspective of a fan, family member or friend).
Overall I give the album an 8, because I still can't get on with The Father Who Must Be Killed, and At Last I Am Born (though I love the 'Blah Blah Blah' talking bit and the military feel of the song as a closer).
As for the people going on about the lyrics on this album, Morrissey has always had a strange way with words or phrases. Just read his interviews; he regularly uses archaic turns of phrase or slots slang words into an otherwise 18th century dandified sentence. Plus he churned out what could be considered weak lines during The Smiths days, e.g. 'Every day you must say, so how do I feel about my life?'. When I first heard that I winced, thinking some 6th former had been drafted in to write lyrics, now I don't bat an eyelid when I hear it, because the music makes up for where the lyrics fall flat.
But although that happens on ROTT (thanks to Visconti's production) to me the lyrics have still got emotional impact where they may lack complexity, especially when you hear the venom or yearning with which he sings them. And I also maintain that artists can't sustain the complexity and technique they had in their youth; there's no point comparing ROTT to Smiths records because that was a different Morrissey. And last time I posted something like this somone said 'but if this had been a debut album rather than 'The Smiths' then Morrissey would be a forgotten artist.' That idea is redundant, because this album is where he's at in his career in 2006. We'll always have The Smiths, and we'll always have his early solo work, but ROTT should be judged in comparison with YATQ, and possibly Southpaw and Maladjusted, but to go further back is to encounter a different Morrissey. By all means discuss 'in relation to ...' but take into account the period and the circumstances of the artist; don't compare the 24 year old firebrand with the 46 year old ... well, he's still a bit of a firebrand I guess. And whatever we have to say in comparison to his other work, in comparison to the rest of the industry, Morrissey still makes some of the most intelligent, emotional and challenging music out there ... challenging being in a lyrical sense of course; there must have been thousands of column inches (pun if you want to) devoted to the 'explosive kegs' line.

pigsty is the best morrissey track ever!,lets thank god that a man of 47 can still be so relevent in todays music scene,and thank your god that moz has not decided to call it a day,for me every moz album is a blessing.

This is by far Morrissey's second best album, outranked only be Viva Hate. Their isn't a weak track on it....Viva Hate would rank third in my opinion, followed by Your Arsenal and You Are The Quarry

On first hearing this album, (about 2 weeks before it's release - yes, I know, but , of coarse, I bought it also, I always do buy Moz's CD's etc...) I though it was a bit crap, with the exeption of a few tracks, but as always, reserve judgement until after many listens. Now I can say that it's certainly one of Moz's better albums, and gets better with each listen. But I'm not quite there yet. There seems to be a lot of good things said about 'Pigsty', but, I dunno, I just don't seem to get it. OK, the second half is quite good, (I love a good 6 or 7 minute epic) but the first 2 minutes is just totally dull, with very little effort going into it. And as for 'The Father who Must Be Killed'...Utter shite!
On a better note, 'Far Off Places', 'I'll Never Be", 'On The Streets', "Work of Art' & 'See the Boy Happy" are all absolute killers! Awsome! Even 'At Last I am Born' is somewhat addictive! Brilliant! Some of Moz's finest work.
I think I still prefer 'Quarry', but 'Ringleader' is catching up fast. I just hope it keeps getting better each time. Even 'The Father who Must Be Killed' deserves many more listens. Hopefully I'll change my opinion of it.
On the whole, a damn fine album.
8/10 and counting.

P.S. 'Work of Art's' 'Puke' line is Comedy / Ironic genius!

P.P.S. I'm still bitter about not getting tickets for Birmingham! Any spares anyone...? I wish I lived nearer Dundee. Well cheap on Ebay.

i gave a ten. thats it. the album is awsome.

oh, and by the way, if you want to see a nice picture, check manson on this one:

http://www.mansonru.com/photo/sk-slc4.files/image0 45.jpg

i just love it, specialy the father who must be killed and i hope he comes to mexico.

thought i would join the fray ! it is a very good album indeed . it is not his best album but i would say it is in the top 3 . the production is great (does anyone else think vauxhall production is dull ?) and have a listen on headphones to see what i mean , you hear little guitar/keyboard lines that you may not otherwise. the two songs that i was not that fussed on at first (born, pigsty (i know its fuckin great )) were two of the highlights when i saw him in amsterdam just over a week ago . the camp seemed divided on "dear god.." when first released but it is just divine .. he seems to reveal a bit more with every album now . best vocal on he album in my opinion is "anybodys hero now " especially the chorus and outro . next 2 releases i think are quite obvious ( youngest / future ) but then what ? . we could wax lyrical all night but lets just celebrate another excellent morrissey album , he will never be everybodys hero but he is still ours to cherish . its a better world with him in it . oh and "trouble loves me" live is just beyond words . got whitehaven , sage and palladium 21st to go .

Let's face it. Ringleader is an 'alright' album made a great album by Visconti's scintillating production. A great album: that's enough for me. I feared much worse. Moz has done himself proud. My only quibbles are with a few of the lyrics. Totally agree with the comments about the use of the word 'puke' in 'To Me You Are'. An unredeemably vulgar word which dear old Oscar would never have used. 'Til you came with the key' is a bum note and terrible cliche in an otherwise flawless 3-minute pop song. Also hate the line '...which isnt very nice' in 'On the Streets'. I know it's ironic but that word is just too banal and it risks destroying the flow of the song. Finally, 'Life is a Pigsty'. Love the song but hate that title. I've been a vegetarian since I was a child and I like pigs. They're wonderful animals! Also am I the only one who thinks that a millionaire who has a mansion in LA and is staying at the palatial Hotel Russie in Rome singing about life being a pigsty is just slightly 'wrong'. The song itself is a knock-out and one of his best. Apart from these quibbles, love the album through and through.

Looks like the vast majority of Morrissey fans on this site consider Ringleader a B-grade (8) album and worse. And this site has the most hardcore Morrissey fans.

I give the album a C+ when judged by my high expectations for a Morrissey album. It's a good but very flawed album.

The meat of the album is pretty solid though. I usually start it at track 4, "The Youngest was the Most Loved," and stop it right after "To Me You Are A Work of Art." "Dear God Please Help Me" is nice, but I'm not always in the mood for that one. "You Have Killed Me" is "okay" but should've been left for a b-side.....

Once again he is unable to put a full length album together that is great from first song to last. Already there are b-sides that are better than some of the songs on the album, so he could've made the album better than it is....

"I Just Want To See The Boy Happy" is the most awful turd of a song he's ever recorded. It feels so forced and awkward, and is actually unpleasant to listen to. If it were the first and only song by Morrissey I'd ever heard I'd think he had no talent whatsoever.

Quarry was a 10. Ringleader is a seven or eight.

thetexasbloke

iwsyifop - load
dgphm - not
yhkm - load
tywtml - load
itfwaiw - not
tfwmbk - not
liap - load
inbahn -load
otsir - not
tmyaawoa - load
ijwtstbh - not
alib - load
glmat -load

I voted 7 and it came up and said, "You voted (4)". Yes it was the 4th choice down, but was I miscounted?

and if that has some bearing and peoples likes and dislikes
i say the people who really LOved YATQ are the youngest. I hated the production on that record

Isn't all of this a bit silly? Why compare Moz albums to each other. To do them justice, put them up against anything from the contemporary artists. Few albums hold their water against a Moz record.

I think it is so silly to compare ROTT with prior Moz albums. The guy is different, at a different stage of his life. People keep wanting Moz to churn out the same Wilde lyrics... Get over The Smiths already! I love all of their albums, but they are something separate and totally different from Moz's work.

I will say this, Morrissey has not made a bad album in his career, when he has actually made an album (which is to say I do not personally count BD as a bona fide album, but as a collection, let alone Beethoven was Deaf, World of... Early Burglary and other similar fodder).

I think ROTT displays great maturity from Moz. Not one bad track on the album.

One last thing, does anyone else out there think that Maladjusted and Southpaw are SERIOUSLY underrated??? They are very powerful albums with great tracks. I think because of Moz's great job and involvement in album art, people tend to be very visual in their judgment and fail to concentrate on the music. Especially in Maladjusted's case... the reiterated rave reviews of Moz's rendition of Trouble Loves Me reveals there are seriously underappreciated tracks in Maladjusted (I have dreams of Moz playing Ammunition, Alma Matters, Satan, and others from Maladjusted).

After listening to it since early March I have come the same conclusion: "Ringleader" Fucking sucks! Give me "Vauxhall and I" any day over this stinkin' pile of elephant shit! I have tried to like it.. I have been loyal to MOZ since his Smiths days! Shit, I even slept on the street on several occasions to see him live in 91, 92, and even in 97. I love his music and praise his lyrics with saving my then worthless life.
But dude this new shit sucks! Not good at all.

Yo MOZ: Fuck it. Give it up, reform The Smiths.. Drop this boring old pop shit! Or "Get off the Stage!"

- Oh, you silly old man
You silly old man
You're making a fool of yourself
So get off the stage.

-Morrissey

Ok on first listen it isn't stunning but like most Moz records the beauty isn't always immediately apparent and takes a while to realise.

With all the hype it was bound to set our expectations very high and high expectations are rarely lived up to. Therefore leading to bigger disappointments

Just give it time before judging. Southpaw didn't sound great at first but in hindsight...

At the end of the day an artist has given a lot of time, and love to his art, and unlike most people has exposed himself on a very personal level.

Please don't just say "its shit" without really thinking about it. Its not shit. Its just different to what we wanted/expected.

I think ROTT is by far the best Morrissey solo album ever. When you've finished listening to it, you are actually able to seperate the songs from eachother. Which in itself is a quality. I could have been without one or two songs on the album - At last I am born and the Boy Happy-song... But it doesn't matter. Cos the rest of the songs are of such high quality - songs like Life is a Pigsty, The Youngest Was the Most Loved and On the Streets I Ran are easily up there with the best Morrissey classics...

I also love the fact that this album is less 'produced' - the sound is more authentic and because his vocals aren't 'overproduced and polished' you have to lean in to the music and I think that gives the listener a better experience...

So a 9 from me..

Have got to say that probably the best song so far is 'Goodlooking Man About Town', closely followed by the NY Dolls cover. And they're not on the album. Let's hope Moz continues to please us with excellent b-sides.

And the rest of your record collection!
Fun site.
http://rateyourmusic.com/artist/morrissey [rateyourmusic.com]

We did a similar poll 2 years ago on YATQ and more people gave it a 8 or higher than people give ROTT now:
http://www.morrissey-solo.com/pollBooth.pl?qid=216 &section=tour&aid=3 [morrissey-solo.com]

Viva Hate: 9.5
Kill Uncle: 6.5
Your Arsenal: 8.0
Vauxhall and I: 8.0
Southpaw Grammar: 3.5
Maladjusted: 7.0
Who Ate Me Curry: 6.5
Ringleader of the Tomatoes: 7.5

Ringleader could go up to an 8. It's still a bit too early to say. Definitely better than YRTQ, though, will those dire lyrics about smelly uniforms, magistrates and taxmen.

Maurice

Admittedly I was a little disappointed at first, and I still think that "I Will See You In Far Off Places" ain't a perfect opener, with its totally sucked out oriental melody. But it surely grew A LOT on me after some more (read countless more) spins. First up, there's the absolutely brilliant and song comforting production from Tony Visconti, and I'm actually not saying this, because he has that big name as a producer, as the music's of course of more importance anyway, BUT nevertheless it once again proved how inept and unfitting the sound on YATQ was. Musically -despite wondering why Boz didn't contribute- you have the usual ingredients, still executed in a very clever and fine way. Also I think that Jesse Tobias did a great job as well, bearing in mind, that it is his first major contributional act within the Morrisseyan microcosm. Lyrically I do agree with some of the criticism, as I'm also one of those, who's not too keen on hearing about "explosive kegs between his legs", which appears to sound a little -at least- odd, during DGPHM, which is nonetheless one his most beautiful songs EVER in my book. I certainly welcome his even more confident than on YATQ approach on bringing back the falsetto more frequently. Especially during the end of "In The Future When All's Well" (does the very end absolutely resemble Elvis's "Blue Moon" or what?)and above all towards the end of "I'll Never Be Anybody's Hero", which delivers me massive goose bumps every time I hear it, although it's graced with a fantastic chorus already anyway!! Eventually I really like the whole album A LOT, except for "At Last I Am Born", and "The Father Who Must Be Killed" which are just plain unimaginative, whereas IWSYIFOP is OK, thinking of the tradition of uncommon opening trax on Morrissey records. Of course it isn't 100 % perfect, but what album is? Ah, nearly forgot about His Master's Voice... His singing -and that alone lifts the album up immensely- is absolutely BRILLIANT!! At the very moment, it's probably my 3rd favourite Morrissey album, only beaten by "Vauxhall & I" and "Your Arsenal". 9/10

My head hurts thinking about this album so much. After endless listening and way over-analysing everything, I have come to a few conclusions.

As a gripe I think that the compositions themselves are just not complex enough or, I suppose you could say, they are not finely crafted. Overall, things just seem a bit lazy - although Alain certainly deserves much praise for doing such wonderful work on a few great songs here (nice playing from the lads, too).

Morrissey's lyrics are more blunt, no doubt about it, but things do coarsen as one gets older. It's the newest Moz, and I don't really mind. I am a fan of the kegs and Pigsty - who else on this Earth could turn such ridiculous phrases into art (then again, I just love "he thinks he got the whole world in his hands/stood at the urinal" - makes the song).

What I LOVE about this album is the emotional honesty and intensity. Morrissey is being very direct and open, very generous. Much as I loved Quarry (which had stronger compositions) I had to skip over "How Could Anybody Possibly Know," and "You Know I Couldn't Last" was irritating. In 2004, I personally did not want to hear all that whinging. On ROTT, Morrissey has had a personal epiphany of sorts, and the results are a pleasure to hear. The Voice remains as powerful and seductive as ever, and I appreciate the passion he has put into things.

I am delighted that he can still provide the soundtrack to live as it is lived.

8/10.

               

http://elliptic.typepad.com/elliptic_blog/2006/03/ come_on_to_my_h.html 9/10

Love it, love it, love it.

Fantastic album - for me his best by far...and even better live.

love him, love him, love him.

While I didn't think the album was that good, Ringleader Of The Tormentors has grown upon me upon listen after listen.

The B-Sides of You Have Killed Me (which aren't that bad) are his weakest offering since the Alma Matters single. Although I Knew I Was Next could have easily replaced On The Streets I Ran for the new album -- the whole song is much stronger and catchier.

Yes, it has improved with continued listening- but only because I've been listening to it on headphones. On a stereo the whole enterprise seems completely lacklustre. Not as good as Quarry, on a par with Maladjusted and Southpaw.

Some notes. "At Last I Am Born" has really grown on me. "The Father Who Must Be Killed" has grown more worse with every new listen.

This album washes over too easily. It's lazy.

I hope that live, these songs sound better.

"I Will See You In Far Off Places" is still the most interesting thing on the whole album, so I'm looking forward to hearing it live.

ivoted 9- igave it 4.5/5 in the review isent to a local mag that isubmit for. thats a subjective rating. objectively istill think the album rates around an 8/10- its very solid.

everyone is looking for every song to speak specific meaning into their lives- thats stupid. Moz writes for himself- for no one else. people always throw the quote from "Panic" back in his face without truly appreciating that song in the first place- juste like they never truly appreciated "Paint A Vulgar Picture" and countelss other songs.

ROTT is a tremendous album- not his best, but very little is amongst Morrissey's very best. its far better than YATQ. its easily an 8 for people who are truly fans of Moz. anyone who would rank it lower than 7 simply shouldnt count themselves as a Moz fan, juste an acquaintance.

but I bought the album and played it for two days to see if it would grow and it didn't. I haven't played any of it since, it's just gathering dust. I can't compare with the sheer exhiliration I used to feel as I first placed a Smiths record or early Moz solo record on the turntable. I haven't played quarry since it's release and the last tour either. His music doesn't move me anymore. To many boring refernces to God, Rome, all of that stuff is not the hallmark of Morrissey. What a bloody awful situation.

Best album opener, eclipses even Now My Heart Is Full in that respect. previous favorite opener was You're Gonna Need Someone On Your Side...

This song shows me all that "Sorrow Will Come In The End" could have been if Morrissey used the same passion and musical bombasticy he did in the song. I expected this much bombasity put into "America Is Not The World", but I felt that song wasn't as powerful musically as it could have been.

"The Not-So-Harsh Truth of the Bell-Shaped Curve"

I gave it 7 'cause its a good album but not great by Morrissey's standards. However it all depends on what you're comparing it to. Compared with most of the crap produced by most artists today it would get a 9.

Hate - 9
Bona - 8
Unc - 6
Arse - 9
I - 8
South - 7
Mal - 7
Curry - 7
Tommy - 8

unt

Mits - 9
Hat - 9
Meat - 8
Queen - 8
World - 9
Bombs - 9
Strange - 10
R - 7

wot else do?

Mon - 5
Tue - 6
Wed - 3
Thur - 1
Fri 2
Sat - 3
Sun - 9

so we all go with metacritics average of 76%. the same here.

Is there a reason why both this and the live at earl's court album had the vocals mixed so loudly in the mix?

I think this is what is keeping me from truly loving the album.

a good album but 10/10? who are we kidding? The Queen is Dead 10/10 perhaps Vauxhaul and I 10/10, Ringleader of the Tormentors on par with these? Personally i think Ringleader is 7/10 at its very best.

1.Vauxhaul and I
2.Viva hate
3.You are the Quarry
4.Bona Drag
5.Ringleader of the Tormentors
6.Your Arsenal
7.Southpaw Grammar
8.Malajusted
9.Kill Uncle

The Reason i have ranked YATQ so high is because the Tracks: 'Come Back to Camden' 'America is not the World' 'First of the Gang to Die' and 'You know I couldn't last' are some of Morrissey's finest songs.
I think ROTT lacks a true class song, there are some great songs, I just think that it does not match the likes of Viva, Vauxhaul and YATQ. One thing that I can say is that Morrissey's voice sounds at his very best. A good album, yes. A great album, no.

I find it a little awkward because half of it is really incredible, and the other half, well, it isn't so much. That is the cheerful half. Like "In The Future When All's Well".

I think the initial awkward listening is more to do with the general weight of a Morrissey ablum. We all want so much. And theres all that nonsense about context and history.
I think if The Smiths deserve perfect 10's
Vauxhall and Viva are 9's
Your Arsenal is an 8
then Ringleader is about a 7.

I voted at nine though. For me, "Dear God Please Help Me", "Life Is A Pigsty" and "To Me You Are A Work Of Art" have to be three of the best songs Moz has ever written. So for these three songs alone, Mozzer deserves a nice fat nine.

That much written about line 'there are explosive kegs between my legs' which sounded a bit... what shall we say? *Deliberate* in print? Sounds much more beautiful and honest in context with the rest of the song.
And I agree with whoever said nice things about "Good Looking Man About Town", what a brilliant song!

Although I thought that lead-off single You got killed was a bit underwhelming. Not a patch on Irish Bombs, English blood.

and the mexican edition of ringleader includes different photos, a shiny blue cd, a book separator, and stickers! it´s awsome.

i also have the cd + dvd edition.

the noiselab edition rocks!!! stickers!!!

Ring Leader of The Tormentors is one of the greatest albums I have had the pleasure of hearing in my life. It is a perfect mix of rollicking melody and vigorous rock. The lyrics are Morrissey's personal best and worthy of immediate non-leather binding and submission to the Smithsonian. The motherless bird lines are poetic brilliance. So much clever wit, suave sarcasism and highly crafted storytelling you'll lose yourself in the songs.
His vocals are beautiful but most importantly convincing. He sounds as though he feels these songs in his own emotional identity. You can tell he's 'in to it' 100% again in a strong way. I stand massively impressed by this work. I can't help but think that if some of you really listened to the album you might see it. If not I just don't understand. I am an old school Moz fan and me and all my friends think this is one of his best efforts. I think it's his best. Bravo Moz. Sorry for the people that complain no matter what you put in front of them. We are a depressive bunch (some of us) you know. I suggest more of you take your prozac.

Love,
Moz Is God (His Gospel is Truth)

Off to see how some of the ROTT songs are played live next week at the Ally Pally, which will cement the worthiness of this record (which varies hugely).

Has it been picked up anywhere that "to be killed" or "to kill" is Chaucerian for sex? Thought so.

exellent album ,one listen instantly hooked.pigsty took me back to strangeways alb very powerful moving

when it's good it's very very good .. but when it's bad it's horrid...mr. tobias should remain a jobbing musician and no more..he can only do morrissey by numbers...all in all a case of nice legs shame about the face.
for all the positive reviews ... we all know this is no career high..let's not fool ourselves..onwards ..onwards

Not quite the album I was expecting. most people might disagree, but actually, one my favorite Morrissey album is Maladjusted. I didn't get the feeling of that album in neither ROTT nor YATQ. But You are the quarry def. had good tunes in it. Right now, I'M FORCING MYSELF TO LIKE ROTT ALBUM!!!!

Unfortunately, i can't seem to accomplish it. There're only 2 songs I listed to. Life's a pigsty (which after 3.00 minutes, the song slows down and gets messed up, makes you want to skip tracks) and The Youngest Was the Most Loved (eeeh). I literally, skip all the tracks in between.

I guess the only thing i did good about this album was instead of getting it for 20 dollars with tax in a starbucks, I got the deluxe edition, album with DVD in Amazon.com for just 11 dollars. Now that's smart. Wish I could say the same for ROTT....

I hope he plays the old classics in his Istanbul, Turkey concert. I might jump from the Bosphorus Bridge if he doesn't sing There's a Light That Never Goes Out or Suedehead.

To say the least, Im truelly disappointed...

Its alright, for a B-sides album.

There's one or two good songs on it, but the majority is shite.

Who is this Tobias anyway? He can't write any good songs thats for sure.

this is just getting better and better, three weeks now, all day every day, its an effing CLASSIC, the anonymous tossers talking about keane and franz ferdinand are welcome to their sadness ... ive got what i want, this is SOUL music you silly foul mouthed little losers

please

Vauxhall & I = 10/10
Southpaw Grammar = 9/10
Viva Hate = 8/10
You Are The Quarry = 8/10
Maladjusted = 7/10
Ringleader Of The Tormentors = 7/10
Your Arsenal = 7/10
Kill Uncle = 5/10

Jessica x

he runs the site since he's a huge Moz fan.
I'm curious

Truly truly truly Disappointed

Well I’ve never felt the need to openly comment on an album before I’ve felt that my beliefs are my own and others are allowed theirs too. Although when I hear such strong remarks like “the finest album Morrissey has produced” and “an instant classic” I feel the need to change my ways.

First a bit of history – I’ve been into Morrissey since 1985. I first saw him live at the infamous wolves gig in 1988 and have subsequently seen him on every tour since, aside from the You are the Quarry tour which I missed through lack of enthusiasm.

Now don’t get me wrong I believe Quarry to be a fine album, most probably the fourth finest Moz solo offering after (in order) – Arsenal – Vauxhall and Viva.
However I think it’s long past the time the once great man should hang up the gladioli and relax away from the public light. The latest album offering “ROTT” is a VERY “sub standard” piece of work. It’s not as low as the bowels of Maladjusted which lets not forget made Moz so unpopular that he couldn’t sell out a sports hall concert in Chester ( I was there and whish I could erase that sorry sight it from my memory!), but it’s easily the second worst album he’s ever produced!
Go on attack me with rants of how Kill Uncle cannot possibly be better than this but believer me give this one 15 years and see if you’re still listening to it then!! (There’s a place is still a classic!)
I find it astounding to hear how people are citing this as a classic, it has possibly two good tracks on it and the rest pale into insignificance. I genuinely find it hard to listen to the entire way through in one sitting, and know for sure this will not improve over time.

After missing the Quarry tour I was first in line to buy tickets for the present tour engulfed in the hype that appears to have many blinded to reality at present. Subsequently after attending one gig – Salford Lowry, I’ve sold my palladium tickets and am contemplating selling my Manchester Apollo tickets too.

I know this post may spark debate, but then discussion fuels the mind, and can only allow other to express their feelings in an outward manner for other to fully understand. So please feel free to comment, but believe me the Morrissey that so many of you appear to love and adore at present is a pale image of his former self both musically and physically, and I fear it is something that many may never witness again.

This album is just so disappointing. There's not one song on it that I'd put on Morrissey's greatest hits.

Where's the real killer hit on it?

singles based.only because it doesnt have one instantly catchy song , some people on here rush and claim they album is crap.. But the album as whole works, in my opinion.
I 'm all for criticism, not everyone likes the same thing but when you have idiots who have nothing to say otherthan, this album is vile or crap and not backing it up with anything concrete, its not realible. Then theres those who said theyve hated the last two records, then its time to move on, find another artist. Youve obviously outgrown your love of Morrissey or he's outgrown you.

to read comments of people who don´t appreciate the album. anyway, get it. the smiths are over. morrissey is awsome too, so stop leaving in the past. enjoy him while he is still giving us new albums.

yesterday i felt very angry at a bastard who claims to be a fan, but didn´t even knew morrissey´s complete name. really annoying.

but well, the album is awsome, i like it.

thats it, i just got it, all the losers who dont like it are OLD people, the same kind who moan when their pension isnt enough to pay for decent heroin anymore, the same kind of old gits who shout at kids playing in the street ... these people who have LOST their youth are truly pitiable lets not swear at them anymore, they like to make other people as sad as their own miserable selfs. im sorry

http://www.mansonru.com/photo/omega3.files/image06 3.jpg

and going back to subject, the people who rate the album with one or two, or write "this album sucks" are just the same plain assholes who come to this site to insult moz, why? maybe they are bitter, maybe they missed moz in concert and now they only feel good insulting him, or more simple: they are just idiots.

so, anyway, it dosn,t matter what they write, i mean, moz is a genius, he is really handsome and he has everything he needs. the last thing he will ever do is come to this place and read the comments.

if you do, don´t worry moz. they are idiots. love ya.

note: please, reissue ringleader by the end of the year with videos and b-sides! thanks.

This is now getting beyond ridiculous. I started posting here as is thought that us all being “Morrissey Fans” we could openly express out feelings and have inelegant discussions about the mans work both positive and negative.

Alas it would appear I’m wrong!!!!

It appears that unless you post in agreement with the majority here, and say that you love “ROTT” and think it is the pure work of a genius in his prime, you will be welcomed with open arms and adored. However if you post otherwise explaining distaste for the aforementioned recording you are bombarded with insults of how you are –
a) not a fan,
b) too old,
c) talk shite,
d) should not be on the site,
and
e) are overall wrong in your opinion!.

This predicament confuses me. I thought (and please correct me if I’m wrong here) that Morrissey fans were alike in someway and all had an intellect that could tolerate and understand open discussion. While I disapprove of people simply saying “it’s a shit album” with no concrete backing, I also disapprove of people saying “It’s perfect” without looking at it in the context of all that precedes it. If we can agree to look at Morrissey’s entire body of work both solo and with the smiths, and then come to some sensible discussions about the quality of the mans work between us all.
I feel we will have a community that can justifiably praise and criticise any work without the need for a petty bias in any way.
Thanks

ROTT is mediocre.

When's the Smiths box set due? Oh, what bliss it will be if Warners get it right. One listen to that will put ROTT into perspective.

Love Arsenal (9 out of 10), love Vauxhall (10 out of 10) BUT - after four mediocre albums he should run back to Marr. It is clear that Johnny will set the pace for the rest of Morrissey's days.

And that is something that you should know....

is it too much to ask if you could put a damn new poll?

i bet people have submited thousends. so? when? cause this one is really getting old.

....needs Johnny Marr.

He must call him or further underwhelming efforts will ensue. YA and VAI are superb - but those days are gone. Marr is a guitar god genius touched by the hand of greatness.

I'm really hoping this was Morrissey's b-side album released early by mistake.

What he released there was a load of bollocks. Ask yourself, if this wasn't Morrissey would you have bought it?

After all the positive reviews,a disapointment,i know they take time to grow,but this is easily the worst since KU. Obviously released too soon after the Classic ( apart from ATLD {dreadful})YATQ. think he is taking advantage of the new upsurge in interest, I was amazed how quicley the UK tour sold out. He should have used YATQ period b sides for the new album, instead of the BORING dross on ROTT (only exceptions YHKM and maybe ITFWAW} MOZ GO AWAY FOR 4 YEARS,RESURFACE HALF WAY THRU TO PLAY WOLVERHAMPTON,AND WRITE MORE FRIDAY MOURNIING..........

the best album of 2006. and that´s it.

nothing to argue.

i hope it gets to the 1 spot of the best albums in the magazines. and number 2 for marilyn manson if he releases a new album this year *cross fingers*

probably not, but it does it have to be?

I see so many negative postings here. I was beginning to get discouraged by all this bile and the nasty comments. I needed to remind myself that it is always the haters that post the more frequent and passionate comments, while we who like the album are contented and not nearly as eager to type out our thoughts. Praise is much more difficult to express than hate. Plus, we who love the album are too busy listening to it to waste our time defending it. Don't forget...

It's so easy to laugh
It's so easy to hate
It takes strength to be gentle and kind

I love this album. And judging by the poll above, the vast majority of fans do too. 76% rate it a 7 or higher...that's pretty good considering the masterful work that has preceded it.

My only dissapointment is that his voice was recorded too loud, and the music in general cannot be heared too well

During a photo session today, I played ROTT for atmosphere. The photographer was a Smiths fan, back in the day, but had not really followed his solo career. She thought the album was delightful. Said it sounded just like the Morrissey she remembered, only without the celibacy, which made her laugh.

An honest reaction, from someone without any expectations.

This album isn't a masterpeice, its awful. It's just no good at all. It's not gonna grow on me. Morrissey that was shite. Wot a waste of money

I'd like to understand why did Morrissey mention the infirm and the newborn in the song On the Streets I Ran. Why? Why didn't he respect children and sick people? Is there a good answer? I protest because I can! I am (or was) his fan since 1986! Where's the man you respect, Moz? And where's the woman you love? Where's the woman you lo-o-ove? Somebody please help me to understand the last passage of On the Streets I Ran!