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Morrissey-solo
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posted by
davidt
on Sunday December 02 2007, @03:30PM
2-J writes:
Tim Jonze has responded to the latest item on Moz-solo in a comment on his previous Guardian blog entry: timjonze Comment No. 813920 December 2 3:39 Bangkok/tha Oh dear. Right. I was in New York writing a piece on Morrissey. Morrissey WAS charming. I WAS a big Smiths fan. I WAS nervous before the interview. All true. Of course I needed guest list for the gigs, it was essential to the story. The gigs were also very good. Great, in fact. I wrote all this in the original piece. Maybe one day I'll be able to print what I wrote and you will see that. Who knows. Now, if I'd come screaming out of the interview shouting "HE'S USING THE LANGUAGE OF THE BNP, I'M GOING TO TELL THE WORLD" then I'd never have got to see the gigs (essential part of my brief) and I'd have had pressure from management to swing the piece in their favour which, although it wouldn't have made a difference, I'd sooner not have to put up with. There's no obligation to tell management that you don't like their artist's comments. It's his own stupid fault for spouting all that drivel. By now, Morrissey should really know how interviews work. He doesn't deserve warnings and copy approval. Christ, he wasn't even ASKED about immigration. Journalists can't strop off in disgust during an interview, just because they don't agree with their interviewee. Their sole purpose of being there is for the readers of the magazine, to get the story as accurate as possible. Also, I didn't write this blog for publicity as some people have suggested (come on, I'm getting a right load of abuse here, it's not much fun!). I wrote it simply because the story in the press that Moz had been stiched up by NME and I was trying to cover up his comments was NOT TRUE. Honestly, that is all. If something's not true, why not put it right? I have no problem with Moz saying he is "nostalgic for his working class background" as some people have suggested. Sadly, he didn't say this. For someone so good with words, he certainly can't find the right ones if this was what he meant. I also have no problem with him saying the country has changed, or that he is against immigration for sensible reasons. All fine if that's what he thinks. But his language is not fine. The language he used isn't helpful to anyone in a sensible discussion about immigration. Also, I didn't say he was like a member of the BNP, either. I said he was using the LANGUAGE of the BNP. This is true. Check out their website. Do some of you not find it just a little bit desperate that Merck is posting all these private emails as some kind of proof that his artist is in the right? He's not tackling the issue at all, just trying to muddy it by printing my emails to him. Why doesn't Moz make a comment on race instead, as Love Music Hate Racism have called for in a very well worded press release? Presumably this is up online somewhere? Tim Ps Thanks to those of you who have posted reasonable comments on this, either for or against my blog. The discussion on this is very important and interesting. It's a shame there's so much nonsense drowning it out
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Tim Jonze reponds to Merck Mercuriadis posts in Guardian blog comments
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First to reply (Score:0)
Seeing the gig was an essential part of the brief? (Score:0)
Why? Did you think he was going to start Sieg Heiling in the middle of the gig?
or, Did you think you'd go back to Conor, tell him of your amazing story about Morrissey being a racist, and he'd clip you round the ear for not going to the gig?
Or were you not disgusted with Morrissey at all and just wanted to have a free night out?
Publishing the emails actually does make sense... (Score:1)
Now, it's open for Tim to reply to this that the issue as to whether Moz has been misrepresented is secondary to the fact that in light of the article (however it came together) he should clarify his position. But Moz / Merck would presumably argue that (if they accepted there was a need for clarification in light of the article at all) the reason there is a need for clarification is that Moz has been misrepresented in the article. Thus why should Morrissey make a separate statement further condemning racism (or whatever) when the NME piece doesn't, due to their spin on the issue, represent his actual position? Surely attacking the NME on the basis that he's been misrepresented is as good then as saying that he condemns views consistent with the overall impression that is given of his views, in the (inaccurate) article?
(User #4798 Info)
There's No Grey w/ Morrissey (Score:1)
No MoZ Fan Left Behind!
(User #20041 Info)
Look here ... (Score:0)
There's only one thing to say at this point: somebody's silence is deafening.
Mind you, better that than a crap song
Are you working on your "What I really meant" essay or are you lazily surfing ?
Brilliant comment on Tim Jonze's blog... (Score:0)
Comment No. 814373
December 2 22:31
Carlisle/gbr
Mr Jonze's comments about the circumstances would be less compromising to his integrity if the comment/opinion paragraphs interwoven in the article and a number of his questions (assuming there is something left from his copy in the final article) were not so loftily condescending. There is much in the quotes from Morrisey with which I disagree but I really do not believe that it all adds up to the picture that the artcile tries to paint. It is a fact that the number of people in central London who were not born in Britain is growing more rapidly now than it ever has in the past. Morrisey's passing mention does not address the complexities relating to this fact and is largely in the context of his ex-pat status and a kind of vague nostalgia for a Britishness that no longer exists. It is easy enough to ridicule this kind of thing but the Jonze questions about the issue are almost as laughable in return (the ultimate moral test seemingly being whether or not someone supports an NME campaign).
Outa control ! (Score:1)
but i still don't think our boy is racist,just lamenting the old days....
what's wrong with that?
(User #18942 Info)
The taboo is the NME’s. (Score:1)
The king looked perplexed: “But I don’t have enemies in the north!”
“Ah,” replied the knight, realising his blunder, “I fear you do now”.
(User #12673 Info)
Dear Tim (Score:0)
you 15 minutes are over , nobody cares about what you think.
ps:you really are a cunt, aren't you?
Apology (Score:0)
Morrissey is not allowed to make a formal statement because it could affect any future court case. We all know THAT. We are also able to make up our own minds by reading these publications, which, frankly and thankfully, Merck has decided to publish.
Merck sounds like a good guy. I am honoured to support him in the right thing to do. And if Tim Jonze's dreadful days of abuse have affected him, then it has only just started....he's obviously not been here before nor probably ever been here or to TTY before.
The Guardian have subsequently printed a form of a rebuttal and apology by an alternative writer, who expressed views that Morrissey has done just nothing wrong, nothing at all. The NME is a publicity machine and it will do anything (and I mean ANYTHING) to survive as a business at all costs.
DECCA here we come. Roll-on 2008 and the next album !
Strawberry.
Dear God Please Help Me (Score:0)
As I said in the other post... (Score:0)
If you honestly don't think there is ANY problems at all with immigration, then I urge you to please go to London, walk into a crowded mosque, pull out a dildo and proclaim you have named it 'Mohamed'...see what happens.
The fact you claim the NME stands to lose readers over this and that should be proof this isn't some type of stunt to boost publicity for the magazine is insulting. The NME may lose SOME readers, but with the firestorm whipped up over this they stand to gain enough new readers to make up for the ones they lost...and then some.
Essentially, it's either you're in league with the NME and are lying to create buzz for yourself and an ailing magazine
OR
You're telling the truth and you're just a sniveling little two-faced weasel who milked all you could of Morrissey and Merck's kindness with the full intention of smearing Morrissey for a paycheck, furthering your career, and getting a free concert out of it for you and your friends
Either way you look at it, nothing Morrissey said (as you claim) is anywhere near as despicable as what your actions say for your character.
(User #19620 Info | http://www.myspace.com/thecolddick)
there only one way we can settle this...... (Score:0)
No such thing as bad publicity? Really? (Score:0)
Shame on you all. Didn't your parents teach you the meaning of the word "responsibility"?
And shame on you all for constantly trying to fool those who pay attention to you.
You are the first people that make England look bad and look like the land where hypocrites thrive. The foreigners have little to do with that.
Luckily, even a foreigner like me knows not all people in England are like you guys. You just have to read people's reactions to this all over the internet. There are people out there for whom immigration is a serious issue, not a gadget to sell stuff.
As for the old farmer from County Mayo (to quote a spot-on Guardian reader), if I were him I'd feel so proud I'd go lock myself up in a cupboard. And swallow the key.(Better still: throw away the recording studio key.)
Now, Morrissey fans
don't blame me/ don't hate me/ Just because I am the one to tell you. And if the truth hurts you, it shows you care.
Just remember that the truth, however, never bothers Morrissey. Does it, Mozzah?
You hit me, I hit back. (Score:0)
F
Hmmm (Score:0)
so BNP has control of language? (Score:0)
So if BNP says they are for better schools, anyone who mentions they want better schools would be using the language of the BNP...and that my friends, is a bad thing.
this is why jonzey and his pals at the NME need to grow up, or fess up they spinned the story in such a way just to sell papers.
Yeah, squirmin ISN'T much fun, is it? (Score:1)
Yes, now you have had a taste of the consequences... this is what happens when you pursue a political or monetary goal at the expense of an artist, the truth, or balanced journalism.
See? squirming like a lying politician is "not much fun." I suggest you learn from the mistake and remember the taste so you don't follow this political path of yours any further... any deeper.
Remember Jonze, next time that you lie in order to defend your job or source of income - that one lie is the beginning of a huge web and effects an entire chain of events. Change one brick and the entire house begins to crumble and it will continue to do so. One lie means every single fact in that chain of events will have to be changed in order to fit that lie. Did you think squirming and justifying and rebuilding a crumbling house as you sit inside that house would be "much fun?"
Would have made more sense to stand by your original attitude and just look for another job man. You are squirming and you are not very convincing or good at it. That is a good sign, you are even worse at it than Conor... that means there is some hope for you to stop being political, it has not become a part of you yet... why not call this one a loss and just stop now before it really becomes a way of life for you?
Since when does an article about Morrissey require three friends - were you doing a poll or a focus group on the shows?
Why not interview people at the show? There were plenty of photographers at the shows... why not get pics via the normal route? Or did Conor forget to assign a photographer? Is that what we will read tomorrow? Or that you were not trying to get passes for your buddies, but the NME was doing a focus group on the concert the next day and 3 specifically chosen people who have unbiased views on racism needed passes to the show as part of the project? The photographer was specially selected because he has shot several civil rights documentaries in the past and he needed a pass from Merck - you had to make sure you didn't blow your cover right?
And as far as you not calling Morrissey a racist goes... then why do I even know about the slogan Love Music Hate Racism? I certainly do not read your magazine so if racism has nothing to do with what you are calling Morrissey then why does that word come up at all?
It is "not much fun" to watch somebody squirm like you have been during the past few days. I suppose I could have a few drinks, sit back, and laugh at you... but I prefer to remain sober and contemplate what a shame it is - how sad it is to watch somebody actually turn political in order to save their skin and paycheck. It is actually kind of sad to watch somebody flush morals down the drain, drag somebody else through the mud, and squirm like a dirty lying politician - just for a stupid paycheck. Because that's what it looks like...
You know, you really should have plead da fif.
(User #20478 Info | http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=suparni)
Merck is not trying to "muddy it" (Score:1)
I point the finger at the NME.
(User #19834 Info)
chain of events? (Score:0)
Jonze writes a harsh piece, convinced Morrissey had been truly offensive, and takes it to the NME.
NME asks for a further interview to "clarify" the matter.
Phone interview takes place, but is inconclusive, Jonze is unable to persuade Morrissey to say anything that could strengthen his (Jonze's)argument.
NME looks at it and decides to water it down, writing several drafts, probably with advice from the Lawyers in order to stay the right side of the law. Now if Morrissey had said something truly regrettable they could have published and there would be no room for debate. This suggests to me, though I may be wrong, that what was published as quotes from Morrissey in the final article were the strongest words he spoke on the issue, as heard by the NME on the recordings of the interviews.
Jonze washes his hands of the matter.
He continues to protest that he had needed to cosy up to Morrissey's manager in order to get to the concert with his mates (for journalistic purposes of course). Giving them no hint that he's sharpening his knives as they exchange cheery e-mails.
I do wish I could read what was actually said, but it must be for legal reasons that so far all we have to go on is the clips published by the NME.
Sinistra
worm on a hook (Score:0)
No this is called right of reply, Face it sucker you are the nme's patsy, your arrogance is nauseating but your obvious fear is very amusing, you make your choices, you can wriggle all you like but wont escape this hook, i hope the darlings at nme stand by you.
Tiny, tiny Tim (Score:1)
A journalist, with no hidden agenda? Is the NMEs target readership the under 3s?
I am for one remain delighted that Morrissey himself has not commented directly. Firstly, why should he be bullied to respond to false allegations. Love Music Hate Racism (LMHR) were not made aware by the NME of Morrisey's support vis a vis its campaign with NME. Is LMHR focusing its attention in the wrong direction? Is it inapproriately using this hate fuelled campaign to gain greater, albeit unsavoury publicity? I would like to think not.
Secondly, if he came out and said
"I am incapable of racism", which, naive Tim, he has, this could be quite easily translated by the NME and yourself as "Is Morrissey capable of Homphobia!" It really is all in what is NOT said rather than what is!! Don't you think?
You, sir and the NME are fanning the flames of racial hatred and you should be utterly ashamed of yourselves. LMHR, if they had any integrity would not be hounding anyone to make public statements but should be asking yourself and the NME for definitive proof of the alleged racist comments - as should the police.
Further....are you power tripping? "Christ, he wasn't even ASKED about immigration". Interesting that you note this. So the interview you were after was a stock response to preconceived questions and therefore answers? This sir, says more about you as a journalist than I think you realise!
Were you aware that you would be interviewing Morrissey - had you really heard of him? I'm beginning to think you are as much of a fan of Morrisey as you are of David Bowie (not knowing Drive In Saturday)tsk! Music journalist, you say!?
I will reiterate what I have said in previous postings on this matter:
"If you knew the man then you would know that he is not one to leave anything half said. If racism was his agenda we would all know about it in no uncertain terms, as we do his views on other matters, with less current newsworthiness".
"I, as a fan of the Smiths and Morrissey (and not English), feel insulted that you think me so stupid as to support such a hateful action as racism. By implication, you and the NME are stating that I as a fan, support racism. I would be very careful indeed with such malicious implications".
I think Merck via his email postings is supporting his client. You, sir read like a baby that got caught with its hand in the biscuit tin!
Gary
(User #20542 Info)
"the language of the BNP" (Score:1)
the language used by the BNP is commonly defined as Modern (i.e. Contemporary) British English.
I use it. Morrissey uses it. Most of the inhabitants of the UK use it on a daily basis, both in writing and in conversation.
The BNP uses it as well. Right on, there.
But if someone uses a knife to slit a throat, will I be guilty of murder when using a knife to open a bag of crisps?
Do you believe in "guilt by association"?
(User #12729 Info)
The problem with journalists... (Score:1)
It's is not up to the journalist to decide whether Morrisseys use of words is helpful in a discussion about immigration. Thing is, most journalists are full of their own political correct views on every darn subject. And I should know - I'm a journalist myself. Tons of people agree with Morrissey (if he said what Tim J. quotes him for) and it is actually ok. We live in a democratic and free world in the west and everybody - Morrissey, me, and whoever - are allowed to say what they want as long as they stay within the laws. No one should be judged by journalists 'moral and ethics' and thoughts on what is a 'problem' or not. If Tim Jonze wants to set a political and 'what is okay and what is not okay'-agenda, I would suggest that he joins a political party instead.
(User #2801 Info)
Request to Jonze (Score:0)
Christ, he wasn't even ASKED about immigration. (Score:1)
If Morrissey didn't want to get into all this again why did he start ranting on about immigrants?
You can slag off Tim Jonze all you like but he's neither here nor there to the argument.He might be an absolute arsehole or he might not but the public don't care about Jonze's character, it's utterly irrelevant.
What they do care about is Morrissey and he was the one who started harping on about immigration when he didn't need to....he wasn't even asked about it.
So yet again he's bought it all in on himself. The quotes are accurate, that seems to be undisputed. So if he sues he'll lose. And lose a lot of money I'd guess.
But look on trhe bright side. His costs may make the Smiths re-union paycheque more enticing to him.
That's if anyone wants to pay for it anymore.
(User #19116 Info)
nme (Score:1)
He seems to be saying that immigration needs to be contolled and that when so is good for the uk and has afforded him and many others to enjoy living and working in other countries.
I think to use compariosns with the bnp is shocking. Anybody who has bought his music over the years knows he is incapable of such vile ideology. I was mortified in 1992 when the racism debate raised its ugly head. But over time Morrissey denied this in interviews abroad and again in the nme this time around.immigration however is a different issue .
I feel confused about what has actually been said wouldnt it be easier to print the whole interview in full without edit for us all to decdide for ourselves.
I enjoy the mans work and he is part of my life now and has been for 25 years
Finally will this debacle commercially sink him now as it did in 1992? If so is this his way of committing commercial suicide again? Only Morrissey knows.
(User #16008 Info)
Having Fun, Timmy? (Score:1)
(User #18036 Info)