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Morrissey-solo
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posted by
davidt
on Thursday June 08 2006, @11:00AM
Belligerent Ghoul sends the link/excerpts:
Vaguely Gay: From David Bowie to Jared Leto by Locksley Hall - AfterElton.com Over the past thirty years, a small but significant number of male celebrities--from David Bowie to Morrissey to Jared Leo--have played the queer card without ever explicitly and permanently confirming themselves as queer. They have made references in their works, dropped hints in interviews. Some have even stated that they are gay or bisexual, only to take it back later and say that it was never true, that they were joking... Morrissey is a famous inheritor of the gay vague persona. From the early 1980's till today, he has danced around the issue of sexuality in interviews, giving oblique and sometimes contradictory answers. He's celibate. He's not celibate. He's attracted to women. He's attracted to men. He's attracted to both. He's not attracted to anyone. His songs are similarly ambiguous. There are lyrics that use the male pronoun and could be taken as expressing gay desire. There are lyrics that could be taken as expressing straight desire. And there are lyrics that are gender neutral. Morrissey's admiration for gay icons such as Oscar Wilde and James Dean, and his references to gay culture (as in the picture of openly gay Andy Warhol star Joe Dallesandro on the cover of The Smiths' debut album) have led many fans to conclude that he is, in fact, gay. But while his fellow 80's vaguely gay pop stars George Michael, Neil Tennant, and Boy George have all eventually made their way out of the closet, Morrissey's sexuality has remained undefined... ...Some queer journalists have attempted to answer this question. Richard Smith, of the UK magazine Gay Time, has repeatedly admonished Morrissey that he has a responsibility to his gay fans to come out if he is gay. But to longtime Morrissey fan Mark Simpson, such appeals are pointless. Simpson attributes to Morrissey a desire to stand outside the entire modern structure of sexuality, the structure described by words such as "gay" and "straight" and "coming out". As Simpson stated in a 2003 interview with Attitude magazine, “‘Bisexual' might describe [Morrissey], if it didn't suggest twice the opportunity instead of twice the frustration and rejection.” In his recent book Saint Morrissey, Simpson wrote that "Morrissey's ambition, his perversity, his sensibility was far too large, too talented, too vicious to be fitted into this harmless, silly, precious, sequinned little word 'gay'." But some critics of Morrissey would argue that the only way for the word "gay" to cease to be “harmless, silly, precious, sequined” is for gay men to own it. The only way for the word to shed the stereotypes and denote nothing except same-sex attraction, is for homosexual men of all types to use it. This is what really bothers certain gay activists about Morrissey and other gay men's refusal to label themselves: if men who are attracted to men avoid the word "gay" because of the stigma and stereotypes it connotes, then the stigma and stereotypes will never be eradicated.
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Boooooooringggggg (Score:0)
(User #10663 Info)
Blah blah blah (Score:2, Interesting)
I think Little Joe isn't gay, anyway--his wiki says he's been "married three times and has two sons," and you'd think someone in the Warhol crowd and a one-time hustler would be out at this point in his life.
(User #15399 Info | http://www.shiperect.com/)
Queer Card? Let's go back to the World Cup, eh? (Score:0)
At this point... (Score:0)
c'mon people.
The use of words (Score:2, Informative)
Fortunately that number is decreasing.
(User #12542 Info)
Importance of Words 2 (Score:2, Insightful)
We should embrace diversity.
We should be intolerant of people who proclaim tolerance.
Embrace one another.
And that includes people who don't wish to profess being gay.
(User #12542 Info)
A humble contribution from a straight white man (Score:0)
That sentiment sounds as intolerant as the most bigoted homophobe's anti-sodomite speech. If a large number of people who have homosexual relationships define themselves (or decline to define themselves) rather than giving in to pressure to accept agenda-driven stereotypes or labels, those prejudices will fade and society will see the human behind the queer. Morrissey's position is eminently reasonable whether he's "gay" or "straight" or, as most people are, somewhere in between.
"The American passion for categorizing has now managed to create to nonexistent categories - gay and straight. Either you are one or you are the other. But since everyone is a mixture of inclinations, the categories keep breaking down, the irrational takes over." -Gore Vidal
Why should he? (Score:1)
That's why he's not saying much about it. Rock and roll in the end is basically about that... rocking and rolling...
(User #16913 Info)
i don´t give a fuck (Score:0)
thanks niggas.
The gay debate (Score:1)
(User #16008 Info)
Out and About (Score:1)
All I know is that his issue has been debated to death on this site, and folks here have pretty much expressed the same viewpoints mentioned in the article, including the viewpoint that his sexual preference doesn't matter to fans of his music, nor is it anyone's business to know.
(User #11277 Info)
Undersaid, misunderstood (Score:1)
(User #14157 Info)
We wanna see the man happy (Score:0)
But we just wanna see the man happy, please, don't bother him, because maybe this is true: he will live his life as He will undoubtely die alone...or maybe no?
There is no such thing in life as normal (Score:0)
Maybe I missed it but (Score:1)
or
"Hey Moz, how do you feel about the fact that most individuals label you as gay, despite your avoidance of the label?"
just wondering. If anybody has an interview that addresses these questions (especially the second) I'd love to hear it/see it.
(User #8315 Info)
Huh?! (Score:2, Interesting)
Whaaat?! I'm sorry, did I read that right?
So if he's straight does he have the resposibility to let his straight fans know?
Yes, I'll admit I love debating whether he's gay or not (and I change my mind every day over this), but it's not like the fans own his soul! He doesn't HAVE to tell us.
Gay or straight, I still love him. Seeing as I'll never meet him OR be in with a chance of marrying him anyway, it makes no difference to me.
And you may argue that he should tell his gay fans to make them feel less isolated, but I don't think that's necessary nowadays. It is becoming increasingly accepted to be gay- in fact, I've thought that teenagers nowadays go through a stage of seeing it as 'cool' to claim to be gay/bi. And people know that it's un-PC to criticise homosexuality. Obviously I associate with certain circles, but from what I've heard from everyone I know and the media, I VERY rarely hear criticisms of homosexuality. No doubt someone somewhere disagrees with this, but this is what I have experienced.
The whole point of Morrissey's sexuality is that he doesn't NEED to specify. He just is what he is. No labels and all that. Which I very much admire.
(User #13955 Info)
Re:Huh?! (Score:2, Informative)
If Moz is gay (as Richard Smiths obviously believes he is) it would be a slap in the face to the gay community for him to deny it... Of course this assumes homosexuality is still an "issue" as you seem to believe its not
However, I must be the boring one, and state that many would disagree with your idea that homosexuality isn't as discriminated against anymore. In my personal experience (which mostly revolves around my gay friends, of which I have a handful), discrimination is alive and well. While it's not PC to be homophobic, there are plenty of homophobes. It's not pc to be racist anymore either...but there are also plenty of racists. I see the two issues as being very similar, in that many people think they are non-issues but they really aren't in the eyes of those who live it.
(User #8315 Info)
Parent
Re:Huh?! (Score:2, Interesting)
(User #12672 Info | http://bcstwentyyears.blogspot.com/)
Parent
As far as Joe Dallesandro is concerned- (Score:1)
I would love to ask Morrissey why Joe Dallesandro was chosen (in that infamous scene) as a cover star, but I think that "scene" is highly symbolic for the entire album.
What do you think?
I probably will anger many, but I think most of Warhol's crowd were very pathetic people- perhaps people filled with a lot of self-hatred. I'm not sure. Warhol's films are classics- but was Warhol trying to glamorize the low-life? I am not sure.
The only exception might be Nico. I could write an entire book about Nico- but she also was caught up in Warhol's crowd.
"Little Joe" doesn't do much these days- but you can't read too much into Morrissey's use of cover art.
Always,
Ken
(User #3940 Info)
A few points/opinions (Score:1)
For Morrissey, one just has to pay close attention. Look at the clothes he wears (especially during the Viva Hate/Your Arsenal era, and just watch the video for "November Spawned a Monster"!), his stage presence, his choice of props, his lyrics, his dancing, his backing band of oiled-up rockabillies, his album sleeves, and his whole avoidance of the issue. He's gay, and so what? If he doesn't want to talk about it, straight people shouldn't point and laugh, and gay people shouldn't feel betrayed. It's really none of our business (although, admittedly, his whole persona is all about making it our business). Maybe he doesn't want to kiss and tell, or maybe he knows that once he officially outs himself, the whole mystery of his career is over, and he no longer sells records!
He's gay. And why does it matter at all?
(User #13585 Info)
wth..... (Score:0)
Morrissey danced around NOTHING!!
Unrequited Love - 6 long years... (Score:0)
'queer card' (Score:1)
(User #13027 Info)
Truly Queer (Score:1)
Morrissey is a supreme example of a sexual philosophy which I have accepted and rejected to various degrees throughout my life, namely that sexuality is far more fluid and opaque than simple prefixes can convey. He is his own man, and yes, it is clear from his art that he fancies certain other men. But the sheer basis of queerness is a rejection of labels and polarity between man/woman, gay/straight. To buy into these words is to be simply gay. To transcend them is to be queer. So in this sense, yes, he’s very queer. Does he love men exclusively? Women sometimes? Who cares? Are his music and wordplay endlessly compelling? Yes. Is he possibly the finest lyricist of this, or any, generation? Absolutely. Wilde smiles on this man, reluctant kegs and all.
(User #15858 Info)
If Morrissey was Jimmy Somerville... (Score:1)
Why are some gay people obsessed with being gay. They surrender their entire existance to it.
I'm gay- but I view myself as a human being first and foremost.
Morrissey represents the complexities of sexuality. Another reason to love him!
(User #15031 Info | http://www.facebook.com/struttingrooster)
Grooming anyone? (Score:0)
morrissey sexuality (Score:0)
It is not really relevant in relation for what he does and all this talking about his likes and dislikes in his sexual life creates and enforces the aurea of mistery around him that is part of the charatcter he is playing .
Here in America, (Score:1)
For all the progress being made in the media, for all the "Queer Eyes" and "Brokebacks" and "Will and Graces" (ugh!) the cold, hard reality is that most straight folks are afraid of queer folks.
Luckily, this seems to be generational, and the younger you are, the more tolerant you are. Why? Because cultural progress will keep moving foward, no matter what the haters do.
Morrissey is certainly a part of that progress. He has done so much for tolerance by presenting a sensuality and a sexuality that was overwhelming, compelling, ambiguous and acceptable. Had he yelled "I'm gay, love me!" would The Smiths appeal really have been so universal? Mozzer's persona went beyond that, and it still does. If he feels like coming out now, fine. If he maintains his ambiguity, that's fine too. All those who think he is somehow harming the gay community are missing the point, in my humble opinion. Morrissey was (and is) one of those generational icons who pushed us all one step closer to tolerance, and dealt the haters a slap in the face.
Rant over.
(User #14203 Info)
What a steaming pile of cack. (Score:1)
If You Don't Like Me, Don't Look At Me
Indeed.
(User #7618 Info | http://www.myspace.com/anthonycutt)
Sexuality (Score:1)
(User #7285 Info)
Ummmm. (Score:0)
inlovewithmyass.
so out he's in (Score:1)
(User #12672 Info | http://bcstwentyyears.blogspot.com/)
Re:devil's advocate (Score:2, Interesting)
Even though he said he changed significantly since then e.g. you wouldn't find him hanging round the Women's studies section of libraries, as if he found his place in the scheme of things, these questions about identity must have helped shape his selections. Perhaps, in presenting similar ideas to fans through his artwork, songs etc, he's seeking the same purpose; teasing imagination and challenge of conventions.
(User #12673 Info)
Parent
Morrissey is sooooo gay! (Score:1)
Hahahahahaha.
Christians are funny.
(User #5103 Info | http://www.patcondell.net/)
Would you like him better (Score:0)
so what difference does it make?
none - so go - your prejudice won't keep you warm tonight.
saenz
the mozkateer
www.myspace.com/saenz01
www.myspace.com/saenz02
www.myspace.com/saenz03
www.myspace.com/saenz04
www.myspace.com/chuckamuck
(User #1871 Info | http://www.myspace.com/ofthetimes)
Shoot Richard Smith (Gay Times) (Score:0)
I find Richard Smith's views patronising, childish and simply just stupid.
But what else would you expect from a Gay times editor? Self self self, me me me - and therefore everyone else needs to be the same. Most gay men are as stupid as "My Little Ponies".
This article is a waste of space. (Score:0)
Somewhere in the wastland of your head (Score:1)
And listen if you still can.
"Oh, I don't want to be judged
I would sooner be loved
I would sooner be
just blindly loved..."
(User #16855 Info)
"Morrissey's admiration for gay icons..." (Score:1)
(User #10290 Info)
There is not an homosexual person... (Score:0)
Who said this? I think it was Freud.
Anyway, who gives a fuck about Morrissey's fucks? By the way, I think he's extremely gay, but celibate. Or maybe he just lost his gay virginity last year ir Rome. How sweet.
The king of the vagabonds/Ringleader of the... (Score:1)
"Such confusion cannot withstand analysis, although personal virtues have nothing in common with poetical talents. The misdeeds of a man of genius ought not to prejudice us; even his crimes should not be taken into account when his work only is in question. A literary critic is not a criminal jury. What matters an error of conduct (sic) on the part of the artist to the egotistical public who delight in his masterpiece? They suffer no inconvenience, have incurred no injury, be he ever so debauched, violent,covetous or dishonest. The artist must be jugded by his work alone, quite apart from responsabilities as a man. If he sets an examples of all the domestic virtues, do the public obtain any advantage? Should he not, in the interests of humanity, set himself apart from common morality, if by so doing his brain is stimulated, rather than leave behind him the best of reputations and the worst of literature. He may have committed all the sins in the decalogue, and yet have made both his own and the generations which follow him heirs of a marvelous and immortal kingdom. And it is well. Around him the shadow may lie deep, but he has illuminated the world. For mankind as a whole this is a clear gain. (...) Virtue may or may not be allied with genius. (...) It is well known to all he (Verlaine) consorted with shameless highawaymen; that he swindled trusting inkeepers; that even to theft by violence he was no stranger."
Sorry for the obviously conservative although sympathetic tone Verlaine's friend wrote this in. The "deviations" he was alluding to are obviously not so bleakly looked upon in our days. But...Hmmmmm, though...the themes (found in "the king of the vagabonds'life") in this excerpt curiously match the ones in Ringleader of the Tormentors. This excerpt was written in 1909...
"I know the story is ooold, but..."
(User #14157 Info)
Roy's Keen (Score:0)
Monster Spawn (Score:1)
(User #5882 Info)
defining sexuality (Score:1)
Submitting to rules, morals, expectations others want to impose is a denial of self.
This applies to all aspects of life, not only sexuality.
In a cruel and oppressive world I understand why people find comfort in identifying with something or someone. whether that be politics, religion, sexual identity, football, hero-worship.....
So I try to accept people as I find them...though often I fail.
I refuse to be defined by anyone's opinion or prejudice..
I reject the notion of "romantic" love as a lie..
I won't say "I love You" just because someone wants me to..
If you accept and love yourself as you are then definitions and labels are not so important or relevent..
You are. That is enough..
I am Sinistra 21
(User #16758 Info)
"Come out as what?" (Score:1)
His refusal to "come out" can be seen to be a statement against prejudice/ homophobia, by effectively saying 'it doesn't matter what my sexual orientation is' to everyone apart from himself and his partner (if he chooses to have one of course).
It doesn't make any difference to me what his sexual preferences are (unless he suddenly declares an interest in ladies matching my description
(User #16668 Info)
Wow (Score:0)
Just want the boy to be straight...that's all (Score:2, Funny)
(User #14173 Info)
The saddest thing known to man (Score:0)
No Dad, I said, They dont know who Morrissey is.
Of course they do, was the retort.
Even old fogies think hes a gay bastard then.
lol
Whatever He is, He is Lovely. (Score:0)
OK take it from me (Score:0)